I went to a parenting lecture at dd's school this week, and the speaker said these things are generally (and statistically) present in 'happy' families with 'well adjusted' children....

[Earlybird]

1. Eat together as a family most evenings, and use it as time to share information, experiences, points of view, etc. No telly, radio or phone use at family meal times.

1. Children are expected to keep their rooms tidy as it teaches them to care for their own space in the home

1. Children have regular chores which is part of what they contribute as a member of the family.

1. No telly or computers in dc's rooms, and limits set on telly and computer time.

1. Family has some sort of spiritual dimension in their beliefs, routines, and home life (could be something as simple as talking about/recognising the things you have to be grateful for on a regular basis).

1. Family contributes in some way to their community (school, church, neighbourhood, etc).

All of the above are supposed to help prevent the dc feeling spoiled, entitled, angry, and isolated . Also helps show/teach them respect, gratitude, manners and support.

Your thoughts? Agree or disagree? Anything you'd add or take away from the list above?

agree sea - i have no problem with teens having telly in room - thats where they reside

No - not confused. Just know how difficult it can be to fit work, 3 kids, long commutes, other evening activities, homework, housework etc into the week - but feel strongly enough about the local community not to jog the fuck on.

even being on MN is contributing to community I suppose! Thing is custy, you have already demonstrated your commitment to contributing something outside of paid employment to the community to your children.

If children grow up thinking that everything positive that happens in the world is done by others and it is their right to just lap up the benefits, it not very good for the whole well-rounded person.

oh i see PG, thats so nice for you congrats. You seemed to imply that i didn't value community. which is why i explained.

yes roger i did - but i don't think that people - as a 'rule' of good parenting need to contribute to community.

even the word 'community' should be prefixed with an explaination as it can mean so many diferent things.

i don't think that it is necessary to show your children how to be great adults. i just don't.

good manners, polite, helpful, respectful - yes - one doesn't have to be part of a community organisation to demonstrate those qualities.

No need to congratulate Custy

thats ok sweetheart

Hurrah! I'm a perfct parent.

Now why are my children perfectly foul and vile half the time?

LOL at "jog the fuck on."

People who use the words "spiritual dimension" come across as a bit crystal-waving and woo-y to me.

And is one expected to "contribute towards the community" in any other way than by ensuring one's children turn up to school on time, breakfasted, properly dressed, polite, and with homework done? Because anything else is asking as bit much of working parents.

And please explain to me how we are expected to all eat together as a family every night without cutting out ALL of DD and DS's extra-curricular activities, most of which seem to happen at times designed to disrupt meals. Because I'm not fucking well eating a chicken casserole at 5pm, thanks, and nor are they 5 minutes before bedtime.

Bless you love

well, it can't hurt?
I mean if parents can find ways to help/show/embed ''respect, gratitude, manners and support'' what's wrong with that?
Moneky see, monkey do.

i accept your blessings pg

custy, don't think it said you have to be part of an organisation.
That's rule me out, as i don't do organised anything if possible. Including religion!

We do 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6 fairly religiously. Always have done.

We try 2 but fail miserably.

yes roger but one doesn't have to be part of a community group to have those qualities or show those qualities.

one can show respect kindness and understanding in Tesco. it is part of just being a decent person non?

I'm intrigued as to what happens to the youths who actually want to hang around on street corners and don't have any interest in going to youth clubs. In my experience stuff set up by adults is not "cool" enough.

I guess it's all about what you want for your family and for your community, UQD, and how far you're willing to go to fit it into your family life.

yes agreed roger

We are an observantly Christian family, but when I used to facilitate a parenting course, we had a session on spirituality.

Obviously, an organised religion was a vehicle to spritituality, but it could also be experienced by atheist families. Anything where you had specific family values and routines was considered to be spirituality - for example, sitting down together to eat, celebrating birthdays, having a family hour. Also, how you celebrate holidays (eg Christmas day - visiting family, eating together, going out for a walk together - basically the celebration of the family unit).

It's a long way short of Christianity, mind

paolosgirl - what I want is not necessarily compatible with what's available. For example,we could send DD to a different Brownie troop, in a different part of the city, at a time which fits in better with "teatime", but then we'd spend half an hour getting there and half an hour getting back, which defeats the object.

I sometimes think the people who set down these criteria for perfection live in a financially-insulated little bubble.

can you call me Molly? Roger is me surname....

Totally agree with the speaker, with every single point.
Mqny kids these days get what they want, aren't asked to contribute in any way to their environment, don't have any spiritual dimension to them, don't eat at the table, don't talk to their parents.
I really think that if we could all apply these simple rules we would have a better and happier world.

There are always going to be kids who want to hang about the streets. What they have to accept is if they do that, and cause trouble then the police will be involved. However, there are plenty of kids who don't want to be hanging about in the freezing cold, and who actually want to be doing something. Here, though, the police and other agencies were brilliant in working with the young people to work out what was needed and wanted.