What do you say when your lovely friend tells you she's doing controlled crying on her 4 month old because she wakes to feed every 4 hours?

[thatsnotmybelly]

This is NOT a judgy thread. I am genuinely interested in what you say when your friends make choices that really stick in your throat.

Do you speak your mind?
Polite smile?
Tight lipped smile?
Fake gushing so they'll never know you're secretly appalled?

My friend is lovely, and a great mum. She is doing controlled crying on her (very placid and 'easy') 4 month old because her paediatrician told her that it wasn't necessary for her to wake to feed every 4 hours overnight.

I did say I thought every 4 hours was pretty normal, in fact pretty good, but friend said that as the baby was now on solids in the evening she ought to be sleeping through.

I very mildly mentioned that I thought breastmilk had more calories, but to take it any further would definitely have left friend feeling got at and it is not my business to criticise my friend.

But, (and I realise that many people think otherwise) I really do think that letting a 4 month old cry for milk is awful. I think expecting a 4 month old to sleep through is completely unrealistic. I think 4 months is too young for solids. I think she should jolly well feed her baby and put up with feeling tired.

(I wish my 16 month old could be relied upon to sleep for 4 hours!)

But then I don't doubt that the little girl is utterly loved and looked after and happy.

Do you find it easy to do your own thing and let others do theirs?

Or is there a point at which you say what you think, and if so where is that point and how do you do it?

Trinity

Babies cry for lots of reasons. One of them being that they are tired. The principle behind cc and similar methods is that you are gradually encouraging your baby to go to sleep without you holding him/her or in the more extreme versions without you being in the room.

If you have truly researched CC with an open mind then I think you would know what it is trying to achieve.

TR, yes my recollection of CC is that you gradually extend the crying periods until they are 5-10mins+

I am of the old hippy answer as someone above.

I did try to deal with this with a not well known friend (met at NCT classes) who could even be the person Bessie123 mentions. It was really hard.

I mostly just was self depricating , "goodness you must be really strong to just take your DC out for a walk in the pram if crying less than 4 hrs since last feed. I give in and feed as it is easier." I was astonished at the time, first DC, that she wasnn't permenently attached to her DC as I was!

Her DC ended really sick in hosp. She was also dieting strictly and running 4 miles per day (from when her DC was 2 weeks) to get back into shape.

How can you go to the toilet, which can take a bit longer than 3 mins, if you don't leave a baby to cry sometimes? I know I couldn't time going to the toilet when my dc's were asleep. I didn't enjoy hearing them cry but neither could I take them with me or wait for them to doze off.

There's crying and there's crying.
There's 'hungry and desperate baby red and rigid and screaming its head off' and 'tired baby wailing and whimpering a bit as it settles down'.
I think talking about 'crying' as if it's always the former (as in Trinity's link) is a bit misleading.

I'd love to see the scientific method which backs up Point 3, btw- that is a load of rubbish. It is simply nonsense to infer a causal relationship betwen CC and cot death on the basis of a hypothesis- because that's all that is.

As for stopping you responding to your baby- I doubt a few nights of increased gaps between comforting could do that. CC is only supposed to go on for a short time.

And frankly, the idea that a baby who's had parents do the controlled crying thing is one who has given up trying to communicate is absolutely laughable. So do these babies never cry in the day then and morph into the poor little souls left in cots in Romanian orphanages then? Nonsense. Another example of loving parents being demonised as abusive for daring to disagree with some other childcare theory.

I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue, tbh, but that internet C&P info smells like horseshit to me, sorry.

shineoncrazydiamond - i don't think 3 mins is cc

So, if your DC do not give in like yours did in 3 mins, what do you do?

The book I read encouraged you to keep going be prepared for hours of returning and settling, said things would get worse nights 3-5 (I always thought of a fish having one last vailiant attempt to get off the line before capture when I think back to this) and then would get progressively get shorter periods for the settle/exit/return until they could settle quickly?

So to continue my Q, if CC is 'only supposed to go on for a short time' what happens if they don't settle?

Do you give in and cuddle them, take them out of the cot or whatever - reinforcing the message that if they cry strenously you will come? Will this not strenghten their resolve to cry for longer periods?

we have just started cc with dc and she is 18 months. We only do it when we are absolutely sure there is nothing wrong with her. Previously from about 6 months, we would leave her about 5 mins or so to see if she would settle (but i wouldn't consider such a short time to be cc). I found just picking her up and giving her a cuddle, holding her or sitting with her for a minute or 2 and then putting her back in her cot worked fine. She has always been a great sleeper (until about a week or 2 ago).

But she is our pfb

Thank you Bessie

I don't remember tbh, Marmaduke. When I leave my dd to cry now until she drops off (age 8, special needs), it's usually because I know there's nothing wrong and I've just had enough. Not much science there- and it's been a long time since I've looked in a baby book.

If your friend's baby is waking to feed then surely CC wont work anyway? CC is not designed to stop a hungry baby from crying, it is designed to help much older babies self settle.

Can't you just express a little genuine confusion as to how CC will help your friend's baby sleep through?

A 4mth old, as we all know, has a tiny stomach and therefore needs frequent feeds, she may even be having a growth spurt.

Your friend may not be aware of different perspectives, could you lend her a book on Attatchment Parenting just saying how useful you found it and leave it at that?

It is a really awkward situation for you. Does yur friend ever come on Mumsnet?

I could tell you i did controlled crying with my ds aged about 9 weeks.
Sounds awful, doesn't it? Tiny newborn left to cry and cry for ages until he 'learnt' to settle.
I'm sure that's what image the phrase conjures up but it couldn't be further away from the truth -

my ds liked a little cry before he went to sleep - fact. Any attempt to soothe him by cuddling him, rocking him, stroking him was met with him becoming more agitated. If he was popped into his cot he would cry for a minute or two and then fall asleep. If after a couple of minutes he was still awake i would go back in and resettle him and then leave him slightly longer as, like i say, the interruptions actually made him worse. I think the crying before he went to sleep only lasted a few weeks anyway and from then on only occured if he was overtired rather than just tired.

People get very excited when the term controlled crying is used and to be chatting about emotonal abuse and the like is just ludicrous if you actually consider exactly what the poster is doing in real terms. If i had not what i did with my son and ignored every sign that he was telling me he wanted/needed to be left alone to go to sleep would that have also been emotional abuse? Basically forcing him to be cuddled and rocked while he got more and more upset is not my idea of good parenting with regards to what MY child needed.

I'm sure if the op's friend is a loving mother she is not leaving her child to cry for food throughout the night. I daresay the reality is much more mundane and explainable but she isn't here to do so, so carry on with the hysteria...

Attachment.

Thankfully the hysteria seems to have disipated and we now have some good examples of real peoples experiences to give a balanced view of how cc is not cruel and abusive. Hopefully this will show you that this is not a cruel thing to do and you will be able to tolerate your friends choices and if you do choose to raise this with her you can do so in an informed and non judgey way.

Yes, true - sorry about that! I starting typing back when we were on page 2 and then answered the phone so by the time i posted the nonsense had disappeared!

It's something that that I might say something about, tbh.

Sometimes parents can feel under pressure to 'get the baby sleeping through' and genuinely not know that most of them don't and can't at this age.

By all means say it with love and respect for your friend, but you never know, you might be giving her 'permission' to listen to her own instincts when she's been encouraged not to.

Is the 4 month old putting on weight properly? I don't think feeding every 4 hours is necessarily enough at that age, particularly if she is breastfeeding.