What do you say when your lovely friend tells you she's doing controlled crying on her 4 month old because she wakes to feed every 4 hours?

[thatsnotmybelly]

This is NOT a judgy thread. I am genuinely interested in what you say when your friends make choices that really stick in your throat.

Do you speak your mind?
Polite smile?
Tight lipped smile?
Fake gushing so they'll never know you're secretly appalled?

My friend is lovely, and a great mum. She is doing controlled crying on her (very placid and 'easy') 4 month old because her paediatrician told her that it wasn't necessary for her to wake to feed every 4 hours overnight.

I did say I thought every 4 hours was pretty normal, in fact pretty good, but friend said that as the baby was now on solids in the evening she ought to be sleeping through.

I very mildly mentioned that I thought breastmilk had more calories, but to take it any further would definitely have left friend feeling got at and it is not my business to criticise my friend.

But, (and I realise that many people think otherwise) I really do think that letting a 4 month old cry for milk is awful. I think expecting a 4 month old to sleep through is completely unrealistic. I think 4 months is too young for solids. I think she should jolly well feed her baby and put up with feeling tired.

(I wish my 16 month old could be relied upon to sleep for 4 hours!)

But then I don't doubt that the little girl is utterly loved and looked after and happy.

Do you find it easy to do your own thing and let others do theirs?

Or is there a point at which you say what you think, and if so where is that point and how do you do it?

wow, I agree with seeker. And for the record, I had a friend who only (breast)fed her baby every 4 hours until he was about 3 and a half months old. He nearly starved to death and had gained only 1 pound in that time. She had to pump loads of formula into him in the end, to boost his calorie intake and make him gain weight.

If I had known then what i know now I would defintely have said something to her and she (who knew about as much as i did, we both being first time mothers with dcs the same age) would i'm sure have been grateful for input and support. As it was, i didn't know enough to have an opinion on it. but it was very dangerous for her baby and i know she still feels guilty about it, even though it wasn't her fault at all.

So if a paediatrician (why is this child seeing a paediatrician anyway?) says a baby shouldn't need feeding in the night at 4 months that's OK then? All babies are the same - and this one is just waking up out of willfulness? Because she SHOULD be sleeping through the night.

I've just re-read the OP and discovered that the reason this baby should should be sleeping through the night is that she is on solids in the evening. At 4 months. Presumably also recommended by the paediatrician. Give me strength.

1. IT'S UNKIND

Babies are helpless, dependant and very vulnerable, but they are people. They count on you to be cared for and when a baby cries she is trying to tell you, in the only way she can, that something is wrong and she needs you.
I have an 18 year old sister with Downs Syndrome who cannot speak. She often uses crying to express herself during the night if something is wrong. If we were to ignore her and let her cry herself back to sleep instead of giving her the drink, snack or cuddle she wants, we would be accused of being cruel and probably have social services investigating us.
I see no difference between that and doing it to a baby.

1. YOU'RE GIVING YOUR BABY A NEGATIVE MESSAGE.

Babies can't speak, but they are intelligent people who can communicate through sounds, gestures and crying. When you ignore your baby's attempts to
communicate as well as teaching your child to sleep you are teaching her that communication is a waste of time. This method works because your baby thinks 'when I cry, noone listens to me' and gives up trying to communicate. A baby who is picked up and shown affection when she cries learns to trust and feels secure, a baby who is ignored feels abandoned and powerless.

1. IT COULD BE DANGEROUS.

During sleep, babies, like adults go through several sleep states, from light REM sleep to deep sleep, back and forth throughout the night.
According to some studies, cot death is most likely to occur while babies are in the deepest state of sleep.
Babies who are forced to sleep for long periods, therefore spending more time in very deep sleep before they are naturally ready, could be more vulnerable to cot death.
Countries such as the UK and USA where contolled crying is widely used have much higher rates of cot death than countries where babies sleep with their parents and controlled crying is rarely practised, such as Japan.

1. IT COULD MAKE YOU LESS RESPONSIVE TO YOUR CHILD.

A baby's cry is almost impossible to ignore. When my baby cries I want to make her stop. I believe nature designed it this way, if crying was a pleasant sound it would be easy to ignore, but it isn't because it isn't meant to be ignored.
By forcing yourself to ignore your baby's cry you may eventually lose the natural sensitivity to the crying and become less responsive to your baby.
It is possible that you might lose the ability to sense when something is really wrong with your baby at night.

1. CRYING CAN BE BAD FOR BABIES.

Remember the last time you cried for a long time, out of fear or distress, eventually srying yourself to sleep?
How did it feel?
Probably horrible, and it is no different for your baby.
Babies who cry for long periods suffer physical stress - high blood pressure, tense body,
increased temperature.
Eventually they fall into a deep sleep, just as you or I might fall into a deep sleep afer experiencing trauma.
Of course crying isn't always bad for your baby, sometimes babies need to release emotions or pain by crying, but at those times I would rather be with my baby comforting her than be the cause of the crying in the first place by placing her in a frightening or stressful situation.

its sad you need to ask why its awful, its obvious why its awful

I didn't write that btw
I dont have a sister with downs syndrome

well that was clearly unwise and i did say that i wasn't sure re 4m old though paed did say it was ok. but just cos i don't have problem with cc with older babies does not mean I would agree with what your friend did. You are assuming that because I don't have a problem with some sort of cc with older babies that I would also support what your friend did. Not QUITE in the same camp, I'm afraid. Would be like saying that if someone didn't have a problem with abortion at six weeks then they wouldn't have a problem with it at 24 weeks. Your friend's scenario and my cc at 7m are quite different. I would take HUGE offence if you criticised what I did with a 7m old who was fixed in her habit of waking up at 4am.

messalina, a paediatrician is not the all knowing god of childhood.

A very well paediatrician told me there was nothing wrong with my DS (at 10 and 20 months) he actually has a potentially life-threatening condition plus CP, a heart valve issue and several other serious health concerns - if I'd listened to him my DS would still be slumped on the floor unable to communicate.

Umelellala nd TrinityRhino I think you need to recognise that your views are based on your own opinions which you are rightly entitled to have and express. However the OP was torn between her own opinion and that of her friend and was asking for advice on what she should do.

My advice is that if she values the friendship she should be careful in expressing her opinion to her friend on this one issue which is down to personal choice. There is nothing wrong with keeping quiet on this issue as it is not a question of abuse but a friend making a different choice based on her own needs and experiences. It does not constitute abuse whatever you might think.

sorry, go ahead and take offence then

Rhino, I suppose you think I am an evil mother for doing CC on a 7m old baby. Thanks for all the info you downloaded from the internet in record time. Well done you. But I don't want your patronising advice TBH.

intermittent emotional abuse....oh thats ok then

I have given you no advice
you asked me why it was awful
I found comments that I agree with

not an evil mother at all no
I dont suppose you also completely ignored your babay trying to communicate with you in the daytime

not evil just doing something awful and wrong but hey, you got more sleep so 'grats

Thank you for accusing me of emotional abuse. I think women like you are the absolute pits and I have half a mind to report you to MN HQ but frankly I have a daughter to love and look after and a job to do. And it's a lovely day outside and I don't want to spend it arguing with bitches like you. But for the record, FUCK off. How DARE you openly accuse me of abuse?

enjoy your day

No one gave you advice, messalina. The thread is about a 4 month old baby - half the age of yours.

Oh, and I'm not a cretin.

trinity tbh your C&P is referring to crying it out or crying to sleep - which is different from CC.

You clearly feel strongly about this - fair dos - but OP was asking how to deal with her friend, not looking for views on CC.

OP I wouldn't use CC myself and certainly not on a 4mo. But in your position I would probably just say something like 'Oh mine all got fed in the night for longer than that, babies are all different aren't they' and just leace it at that.

Is there a chance she is low in confidence about her parenting anyway, if the LO is in the care of a paediatrician? Negative comments could be very hard to take if she is already struggling.

7 weeks......

Time for me to leave the thread.

HAs the baby got digestive problems? Isn't early weaning recommended to babies with reflux or am I dreaming this up?

sorry doggie
Thanks for correcting me

but I thought with controlled crying you can be leaving them for 5 or 10 mins, crying, with no response from you

well that will raise all the issues in the c&p

I do have very strong feelings about this
I'm sorry I hijacked the thread along with some others

to the op
soryy
I would have trouble not saying anything but I wouldn't say anything if I wanted to keep my friend as a friend unless I thought the friend was floundering and not really wanting to do it and possibly looking for other options
I also could not be in the house when she did it.

what was the point of leaving your tiny baby to cry for you for 3 minutes though?