Where does my brother stand WRT custody of his unborn child?

[OneForMyBaby]

My brother, who lives in Australia and is married to an Australian, has been having marriage difficulties for about 18 months now. His wife had an affair throughout last year, and he did all he could to put right his contribution to the strain their relationship had been under, and to repair the marriage. From the beginning of this year, reconciliation looked likely.

However, on Friday, she took off unexpectedly on a plane to visit the man she was having an affair with. She said she'd be back Sunday, then Thursday this week, and now it's Saturday. My brother doesn't trust her, and obviously any progress with repairing their marriage has come undone.

My brother wants a divorce. Bittersweet news is that his wife is three months pregnant (with his child). They had fertility treatment, which was unsuccessful, before her affair, so didn't think they could have a child without intervention. They have now conceived naturally.

My brother has some reservations about his wife's mental health, because of the way she has behaved towards him over the past 18 months and some of the things she has written/said to both him and her lover. She seems very unstable. She told him as she left on Friday that if he considered leaving while she was away, that this would be extremely selfish of him considering he is due to be a father - in spite of them both knowing where she was going. This is at the same time as emailing her lover praising his willingness to raise another man's child - and another email (to the lover) saying she will have a termination. He (the other man) has said he wants nothing to do with her and didn't want to see her (he forwarded all her communication to my brother).

My biggest concern in this soap opera, and I think my brother's too, is that his wife will very likely be raising his child as a lone parent with mental stability issues. (Her mother experienced mental health problems during her childhood, and she and her sisters lived with their father when he and their mother separated.)

He knows, from her behaviour over the past few years, that she will likely use the baby as a bargaining tool and leverage against him. He isn't certain what he will do yet, but wonders under what circumstances he might be able to gain custody (or at least primary carer status) of their child. Anyone know anything about this, particularly in an Australian context? Thank you.

God, can't be bothered to read all the long replies but you are being totally unsupportive of both mother and child and have given up on any potential this woman may have as a loving mother to what may be your DB's child.

How on earth can you justify this stance? Why aren't you either butting out entirely or taking steps to aid the mother if she needs it?

You cannot simply dismiss one biological parent in this way.

Why mention her mums mental health if it has no relevance?

I don't know why people have such an inability to look at the facts full on:

Fact No1 - A married woman is pregnant
Fact No2 - The woman has no recorded history of mental illness - whatever the insinuations of other parties
Fact No3 - She is splitting up with her husband
Fact No4 - The husband has no job

Right - so put yourself in any family court's position

Who would you award custody to?

How did your brother de-stabilised the relationship? Perhaps it was not small to her.

By the way, if the man she had an affair with has sent their private emails to her husband can you be sure that she has infact gone to see him particularly as he said he wants nothing to do with her? Maybe he (your brother) could report her missing or perhaps email her lover to check that she is actually with him?

I mentioned the emails, dittany, because they're the things I've seen evidence of. I thought you wouldn't be satisfied if I said this is how she's been talking to my brother for over a year.

And this isn't about her deserving to have the baby taken away from her. Colourful language again. It's about what the baby deserves, which is a stable start in life, and I can understand - at least from all I know of the situation (and I realise that isn't necessarily representative enough) - why my brother is concerned that the baby may not benefit from this if he/she is cared for mostly by his/her mother.

As I said, I feel almost certain his wife will accept no support from us, and this is based on experience. And I don't know what support to offer from over here, and against the backdrop of her having flown off to the other man again and us all being aware of this. What would you suggest? Truly, I would appreciate some suggestions in this regard.

And dittany, I do speculate that she will be difficult about access, yes, but I have at no point said my brother must get custody. I have said he is interested to know in what kind of situation this might be entertained, and that's it's something he feels may be more beneficial to the child. Not that he must get it. And again, decisions are not being made about the baby's future, but options are being looked at; my brother wants to know what is likely, what is possible, etc. He is arming himself with information. I think, given where his wife is at psychologically, that this is sensible.

And again, how would Mumsnet react to a mum posting saying that her ex was emotionally abusive to her (I can hear the chorus of "abusive to you means abusive to the kids") and had custody of the children? Again, I know mums usually have a particularly strong bond with their kids. I'm just championing dads here a bit. It can seem a bit like one rule for mums and one for dads.

FFS! I'd say one has to be jumping out of the window unstable before removal of a child from maternal care is considered.

Mental illness (as you are diagnosing ) is a disability the same as any other. What are your thoughts on mothers in wheelchairs, etc.?

Wish I hadn't read this thread now - your attitude is just dreadful.

Is it at all possible she has left because she fears that her husband wants to take the child away from her and that her lover is giving him information that could damage her case? From what you have said it seems odd that shw would go to her ex-lover or that he would welcome her.

and is your brother planning on starting proceedings now or waiting 6 months until the baby is born? How will he keep this from her in the meantime?

She's not abusing your brother, she's bloody run away from him!

OP - you genuinely need to detach a little bit here. It's all very well stating that your SIL is mentally ill - but it is not something you can bring to court without any evidence to support your case (NB - your allegations and emails DO NOT CONSTITUTE EVIDENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES)

You will forgive me for noting that this is your first post on MN.

You will perhaps not forgive me for thinking that this is a very male perspective you are offering us.

Whatever the ins and outs, only an Australian lawyer can tell your brother the lie of the land.

He should contact Legal Aid in his state. They will give him a better idea of where he stands than Mumsnet will.

OP: you do seem to be unquestioningly taking your brother's word for how big a mental bitch his wife is. You are thousands of miles away, and though it is natural for you to take your brother's side, what is coming across is that your whole family have decided this woman is a bad person and a bad mother when it is possible (from the perspective of strangers on the internet) that the reason she is unstable is because your brother is abusing and controlling her.

I give up. I'm quite shocked at the flaming I'm getting TBH. No amount of explaining or reasoning is going to convince you I'm not a hard-hearted, interfering, unsupportive SIL.

All I have an idea of is how SIL has behaved over the past 18 months, how much she has both alarmed and concerned her own and my DB's/my family, and our collective gut feeling that she may not be well enough (at the moment) to take responsible care of her newborn. And I feel pretty certain she doesn't want support. From this standpoint, I have been supporting my brother in looking at what he can do to safeguard the wellbeing of the baby. Even the ideas of paternal custody, or the father being the resident parent, seem too incendiary for here.

Thanks for posting though, and if you can suggest what we can do from over here (i.e. not in Australia) to support his soon-to-be-ex-wife, that'd be helpful. Thanks.

FWIW, I am a regular poster who has namechanged. And I am a woman, not a man, as shocking as that may seem - God knows what kind of (lone) parent that must make me to my DS.

No, no, no! The situation really isn't as you describe, dittany, Solid and beanieb. Really, it isn't, and if it's coming across as I suppose it must be, I am doing a shit job of articulating myself - and I doubt I'm going to improve at 1.23am!

I do appreciate you posting, though. Thanks.

Thanks, ninedragons. I'll pass on that advice.

"Fact No1 - A married woman is pregnant
Fact No2 - The woman has no recorded history of mental illness - whatever the insinuations of other parties
Fact No3 - She is splitting up with her husband
Fact No4 - The husband has no job

Right - so put yourself in any family court's position

Who would you award custody to?"

I think that would depend on what country we were in. In this country, there is a strong assumption that the bond with the mother is of overruling importance for a child, so it would need a very strong reason to award custody away from the mother.

In certain other countries, like Sweden, there is a much stronger sense of the equal importance of the bond with the father. To their view, attachment disorder could equally be caused by removing a father, because the assumption is that men are equally close to their children. I imagine for such a young child, the practical considerations of breastfeeding might overrule anything else, since they're very hot on breastfeeding; for an older child, custody would usually be shared.

So one would need to know more about Australia- some of the posts here have been very interesting on that. No point in trying to guess the outcome according to British sensibilities or priorities; other countries may look at things in different ways.

jesus- I can't believe the reaction the OP got here you know.
Mother bountiful sounds an absolute cracker- Nice that she's offering to terminate the baby if that suits the guy she's shagging...nice.
I think there's probably wrong on both sides but seriously,just because someone is pregnant doesn't mean they will be an amazing mother-if she is already using the baby as a tool of blackmail/bargain one can assume this is going to continue.I don't have the answers to this one by the way- just wanted to back up the op a bit

Sleepless, I for one am not suggesting that being pregnant auto grants one 'amazing mother' status. No, what needs to happen is for support to be given - regardless of rejection of such support (as is common with those who most need it) - so that any mother (indeed parent) can fulfill the role of amazing mother adequately.

People do weird things and say weird things. People who are emotionally and mentally in need often act particularly towards the odd end of the scale in terms of their responses to situations. Surely this highlights the obvious need to assist such people in rationalising and normalising their responses both for the benefit of their children and them as individuals - each deserving in their own right?

Agree with sleeplessinstretford.
This is a woman who, if what the op says is true, is willing to terminate her pregnancy to salvage the remains of an affair. This demonstrates her inability to put her child's needs before her own.

'I'd say one has to be jumping out of the window unstable before removal of a child from maternal care is considered.'

Really? So baby should stay with the mother at any cost?

I'm sorry for the harsh response you seem to have attracted, op.I agree with a previous poster that if the gender roles were reversed the replies would have been very different. Imagine a man trying to persuade his wife to have a termination in order to facilitate his affair, you would all be shouting arsehole by now.

No real advice wrt the legal situation,op, just didn't like the flaming you were getting.

FGS the OP has every right to be worried about this woman controlling access, she is already asking her OM if he will bring up the child as his own!

And what is wrong with sharing these e mails with a sibling? W e all have to share our problems with someone, do you expect he should deal with this situation alone with no help or advice from friends or family?

This whole attitude that the Mother is the only viable option as resident parent is ridiculously sexist. Why should the Father have anything less than equal responsibilty?