Do you think it's worthwhile to "force" children to continue playing an instrument, even when they go through a not so keen phase?

[emkana]

Dd1 started playing the violin at the beginning of Yr 2 and really liked it.

Now she's coming to the end of Yr 3 she's not so keen because none of her friends are doing it and she sometimes misses playtime. She's sort of okay to carry on with the lessons, but really wants to stop orchestra which is on for an hour after school on Friday.

I want her to continue both lessons and orchestra. Am I wrong to make her?

I would let her give up orchestra and hope that she would then have a more enthusiasm for the lessons. Can the lesson time be changed to avoid missing playtime?

seeker, that sounds brilliant, what a fab teacher.

All mine play two instruments and know it is not an option to give up. It just isn't an option! They are at a school where music is cool though so I am sure that helps

But why Beetroot?

Surely there's the possibility of putting them off for life, not to mention them resenting you big-time in the process?

I dunno, I'd love DS1 to play an instrument. He tried violin and gave up, I just can't imagine making him do it. I do see where you're coming from though. So many adults wish they could play and regret having given up.

Am watching this thread with interest as ds has just started learning the recorder and I would like him to move onto something more useful eventually and keep going until he's proficient.

Really regret giving up piano myself (although it wasn't my choice of instrument).

Ds is very lucky that we live in a town with a music centre. He's been going to Ragamuffins since he was a toddler so I keep my fingers crossed that all that groundwork will pay off (most recently they've been learning about written music, treble and bass clef and where each note sits).

I'm watching this thread with interest. Both mine loathe their piano lessons and practice and hate being cajoled into the choir. I am persevering though in the hope that they will appreciate it later ...

Just because you give up at one point, doesn't mean you can't take it up again later . . .

I had lessons from age 7 til 11, gave up because I wanted to do other stuff, but then started playing again age about 14 (and then changed instrument from flute to saxophone).

My parents were very chilled about it all, their only proviso being that if they were paying for the lessons (which they did part of the time) then I had to practice.

Oh, and apart from insisting that I only practiced the sax for limited times with a duster stuck down the end of it

I always liked orchestra far better than lessons.

I feel you need to find out the reason(s) why she wants to drop orchestra. Talk with DD and head of orchestra. It may be purely down to the timing, rather than not actually wanting to play. You may find that there are other local orchestra's, or quartets even. Orchestra leader and violin teacher may be able to suggest other groups.

Leave the violin laying around the house - when bored, your DD may just pick it up and have a play.

What annoyed me as a child about lessons was that I had to play set pieces, which I didn't like. I far preferred to copy TV tunes... and discovered that my local library had music books with selections from various film scores - so I could actually play from music, rather than by ear (even then, I far preferred playing by ear).

Because it is a phase
If they said I don't like school, I don't want to go you would not let them stay at home.

She shows a talent, but it is hard work sometimes and boring sometimes.

Mine have go through phases - but now I have a specialist musician who is 15 and about to take grade 8 and grade 7 - and lives and breathes it. This was not always the case.

I am taking heart from DD's swimming. . At first she loved swimming. She loved the lessons, she loved the club nights, she loved acquiring badges, she loved the dive-training and she loved galas ... All good. Then in the middle of year 4 she just didn't want to do it any more. I cajoled and bribed her into staying on until the end of year 5 so that she could get the final two badges and compete in a particular gala.

NOW she says she's really glad that I kept her going through it all.

D'you think music is the same?

The grades help too.
and I think it might be quattro

I don't think it's quite right to equate learning an instrument with going to school. There are laws about going to school (or at least receiving an education) and it's hard to function as an adult without education. The same just simply isn't true about playing an instrument, there are plenty of non-musical activities in life that people can do instead and you don't even need to be proficient in an instrument to enjoy music at many levels. I know as many people who are glad they stopped playing & have never regretted it at all (some even who regret wasting so much time as a youngster) as I do people who wish they'd persisted with it (or had the opportunity at all).

It's just not black & white, if a child is certain they want to stop & you've tried all reasonable measures to persuade them otherwise then I think you should respect their decision.

Speaking as a music teacher, and also from my experiences as a child learning an instrument, all children go through phases where they enjoy learning more and enjoy it less.

I think it can be a mistake to stop lessons when a child obviously has an ability but is just going through a bad patch. But then, sometimes it can help to take a step backwards and just have fun with playing for a bit. I think you need to talk to your daughter exactly why she wants to stop.

When I went to secondary school I played cello and piano - I desperately wanted to stop cello lessons and having to play in the school orchestra because it was such an uncool instrument. I was fed up with comments about having to 'spread my legs' and 'what do you have in that case, a bazooka!'. I was made to keep going for 2 years but then managed to get a school flute to play and switched to flute at 13. I loved it, and got to Grade 8 within 3 years or so because I wanted to play that particular instrument.

So what I'm trying to say, in a fairly long winded way, is that perhaps your DC might need to take a step back for a while, and then look at whether the instrument is the right one? Perhaps you could cut the orchestra for a bit and see what happens.

I beleive all children should learn an instrument as well as a language in the junior years.

I pais mine to practice when they were little'
10p for one practice and a pound if they did 6 in a week,

this really instilled a good discipline but also they saw how they unproved form week to week and in the end they wanted to practice and learn

As I said the school they go to encourages music and has a high percentage of musicians so half our work is done.

emkana It's not great that she has to miss playtime for her lessons, even if it is once in a while. Maybe on those occasions you could redress the balance by letting her have a friend or two over for tea that day.

Perhaps something similar would work for orchestra too - it may just be that she feels she is missing out on fun with her friends.

It's hard work learning an instrument/playing in an orchestra and it's easy to lose sight of that when we feel that we are giving our children great opportunities.

So, in conclusion: try to make up for what she is missing and see if this helps before doing anything too drastic .

I think in an ideal world all children should have the opportunity to learn an instrument at junior age, but not have to do it if their interests lie elsewhere. I also appreciate that other views are valid, so I'm not getting at you beetroot, just agreeing to differ.

Talent is an interesting issue - should you force practice because a child is talented? I suspect not as the same child may well have other talents too waiting to be discovered and there's only time for so many activities. Talent is a reason to encourage more strongly imo though (there's a fine and ill-defined line between 'forcing' and 'encouraging more strongly').

Bribery doesn't always work, but it can do. Something to try if you are that way inclined and your children are motivated by pocket money (mine never were).

I think that if talent combines with desire to learn then that will produce a musician who has the potential to, for want of a better description, go places.

You can have all the talent in the world, but if you're not interested or lack the desire to progress, then it is hard work for everyone - pupil, parents and teacher.

Bribery has its moments and I have used it sometimes when teaching (and also with my own DCs) but you really can tell those children who have a love and a desire and willingness to learn against those who do it out of parental pressure and obligation.

Thank you for all your comments, still mulling it over but your thoughts are a real help

Don't let her drop it! If you do, there's a large chance she'll tell you in later life "Mum, I wish you'd made me keep going." Then you'll feel guilty .
Also, in the early years, practising isoften a real slog. Then they start getting good and actually want to practise (sounds amazing, but it's true!) The orchestra's less of a problem. Let her maybe drop that if she wants tt. Is there something else like Music Centre she could go to at a different time?

Well we have been at home over the bank holiday weekend and DD and DS have both practised voluntarily multiple times. Totally unprompted.

Here's hoping it continues ...

Take teacher's advice!
My advice would be to give orchestra a miss for a while, ban practise (it's much more effective than making them practise, after a while they will be begging you to let them practise again )
Find a really good fun book with CD (my favourites are Abracadabra Beginners, Stepping Stones(mainly open strings) & Waggon Wheels. Lots of fun new pieces rather than many teachers boring 'you get a new piece when you can play that one'!
How would she fancy a coloured violin? Careful though, get it from a proper violin shop not a music shop who doesn't know how to set them up!

I am going through this and for last year have hated mornings. Insisted daughter should give up without any fear of ill feeling from me (which was really hard to say) but she insists on keeping on even through watching her getting stressed at teh piano is like watching her floggin herself in the corner...and I have told her that its that painful. She is pretty good at it but won't tolerate a piece not remaining in a perfect state but wont change her practice habits. Just wants to perform them every morning and not actually work on them when they start fgoing backwards. Someone commented that they weren;t sure what good music was anyway - its brill for their brain, maths, languages and music are very interwined..even right left brian and co-ordination issues. Although for my daughter its killing our relationship as its sich a crappy way to start our day. Do I force her to quit or keep working toward solutions (have tried many already)....

I loved playing in the school orchestra, but while playing ensemble is a skill, it's not something you forget. If your DD is quite good, she's probably playing stuff for orchestra which is (technically) fairly easy for her. So she could knock that on the head for a while. If she misses it later, she can always go back.

As for the lessons - is she doing grades? That can get a bit wearing - doing the same pieces OVER and OVER... perhaps ask the teacher if she can learn without the exams for a bit?

I would do a deal with her - to drop the orchestra but persevere with the lessons - and if she's still not enjoying it next year, have another think.

How about trying to find some other music for her to play for awhile. Or even another instrument (violin is tough and also hard to play current youthful tunes on). My ds started clarinet about a year ago (when he was 7) and a few months ago seemed to be getting a little bored. He is a Star Wars fanatic so I ordered a book of Star Wars music for clarinet and he has been practicing 20 or 30 minutes EXTRA a day some days he is having so much fun. On the other hand, dd started piano (at her request) at 5 and then added guitar to the piano a few months later. Well she quit the guitar after a few months and then the piano a few months after that. I think she was too young and will ask again when she is older.