Should parents be allowed to SMACK their child?........ Debate on ITV ........ THIS MORNING

[RTKangaMummy]

Smacking

When John Saunders' son began playing up during a shopping trip, he told the boy to behave himself. But the little boy who had rammed a trolley into his older sister, took no notice so his father gave him a slap on the legs. But only four days later John answered a knock at his front door and was confronted by two police officers. John, discovered he was under investigation for assault after a fellow shopper reported him. John joins us today, along with Denise Robertson and Carolyne Willow from the Children's Rights Alliance who believes that there should be a total ban on smacking.

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it's all very well saying all smacking should be outlawed, but there will allways be people who use it, to a greater or lesser degree, as a discipline tool; those who don't use it at all; and of course those who abuse children! By making it illegal, might stop some of the 'smacking', but I'm sure it won't stop an abuser.

I'm not sure where I'm at when it comes to smacking. My dd is 2.5 and has never had to be told off properly let alone deserved a smack of any kind. I guess we're just lucky that she's so "reasonable" iyswim....
My dh's parents never smacked him or his brother/sisters and he's a very patient guy and gets on with his parents and his family like crazy.
I've been smacked a lot for the smallest of the issues and am a nervous wreck now as an adult - no confidence, angry most of the time, PND with dd, zero patience and absolutely hate my parents for how they treated me and blame them for making me be the way I am. I haven't spoken to them for about 2 years and as I'm living in another country we never really have to see eachother.
My husband puts up with me and my moods because he loves me and understands what my childhood has been like - and why I am the way I am as a result of being treated badly.
I always said to myself I will never lay a finger on my kids and if my kids misbehaved, they'd get a good telling off, I'm not sure I'd smack unless:

1. There is a lifethreatning situation and they're just not listening / obeying (i.e. pushing eachother around the train station/road or something on the similar scale)
2. Police comes to my door telling me they'd been beating people up or stealing (i.e. from old ladies )

I don't know... Difficult subject... I guess the ultimate for me is that I'd never smack my kids with an object (belt, wooden spoon etc.) and nowhere where it would be very painful and leave a bruise (I know of all places from experience!). I certainly wouldn't make a habit of it in case it confused them , made them frightened of me or made them hate me for it...

Surely there are models in other countries to follow - Norway?

Societies vary like climates unfortunately MT - Norway we ain't!!!!

A friend's MIL was visiting her other grandchildren in Norway, the boy called his grandmother a cow, she told him off. He want to school the next day saying that she had smacked him, the police arrived on the doorstep with social services, and took hours to 'sort out' the misunderstanding!

Another victory for common sense then!?!?!?!?

Hmmm....being Scandinavian I very much think your story Hadalifeonce has a bit more to it, or is an urban myth. I can assure you that Scandinavians would quite rightly react in the same manner as most Brits if they had police or SS on the doorstep everytime they had an argument with their child. And as I have said before, Scandinavian prisons are not full of parents who have smacked their children. I do think it's easier to tackle abuse cases though, because there isn't this grey area where you are allowed to smack, so it's easier when you do need to step in. Abuse (also of adults) is always difficult to prosecute even if there are laws against it.There are laws against incest, but children don't tend to report their parents. I don't think children will run off to the police for every smack on the hand either. Children tend to protect their parents. These difficulties should not mean there should be no law against it IMO.
In Scandinavia it is socially not acceptable to smack children. You are as likely to see a child being smacked in the street as you are to see a husband smacking his wife. Of course it is not utopia. There is wife-beaters and child-abusers at home too, but I think the difference is that smacking is not seen as a tool of teaching right and wrong.
And why is that Scandinavian parents can largely bring up their children without smacking them, while such a large population of the UK don't think they can? Surely it is not down to the climate?

Now, I must go and feed my children who I keep locked in the basement Scandinavians-style

Great post Fairymum. I agree with it all!

Wasn't having a go at any nation, just repeating the story of events as told to me. Maybe I should serve a pinch of salt?

As a matter of interest, how do the non-smackers discipline an extreme act of misbehaviour -something like lets say continually running in the road or hurting a sibling? What about spitting and swearing? (By the kids not the adults!) Do the methods you use work? Do your parents support your methods or do they think you are too soft?

As a non-smacker, I have used all sorts of different discipline techniques for very bad behaviour. I have generally found that trying to prevent it happening in the first place is the best tactic. I used to watch DS like a starved hawk when he was going through the hitting stage & would be across the room like a shot if I saw his hand going up - didn't make for great conversation with my girlfriends but as with most phases it didn't last long.
We live on a busy London street, so running out into the road cannot be an option. I used the reins as a threat with both of mine. They both hated them with a passion, so if they didn't walk in a controlled manner with me on the pavement, then the reins went on immediately. This would usually result in a tantrum, but they don't last forever either.
I now find that by carrying out whatever threat I have used as a warning to change their behaviour, 90% of the time they get their act together and I don't have to actually carry the threat out. My children are 6 & 3 and they know that I really mean it when I say I'm going to do something.
I don't shout much either, so if I shout, they know they are in big trouble too.
My mother, an enthusiastic child beater and good behaviour stickler, thinks I am too soft, but even she has had to admit that my children are polite & well-behaved (most of the time - they are definitely not perfect!).

Bugsy - would you like a loan of my son?! I'm afraid all my best parenting techniques (just like the ones you've listed) cut no ice with him whatsoever - so much so that we were referred to a child psychologist with him. It's been a lot of hard, hard work to get him to this stage, and a lot of pressure on the family - but we've all done a bloody good job.

Now DD is quite another matter....and if I'd only had one, or had a couple like her (and she isn't perfect!), then life would be much, much easier!!!

Ha ha! Bugsy you made me laugh out loud! My mother was also rather quick to dole out the slaps. Bloody battle axe! I am rather quick tempered and therefore scared stiff that I might have picked up a few of her iffy genes in that dept! Don't want to be a smacker. Paulosgirl is your boy better behaved now as a result?

paolosgirl, ds was vile for about a year (from just under 3 to about 4) and he spent alot of time working out his anger in the back garden, but I don't think he would have been any less vile if I had smacked him.
We left parties early on a regular basis, left friends houses, left libraries, shops etc etc - I thought he had been possessed by the devil at various points but endless consistent boundaries and threat which were always carried out do seem to have paid dividends. It was very grim for a while though.
I'm also a big believer in lots of praise for every kind act, good bit of behaviour or job well done. I see that as part of the discipline process. If my ds thinks that he is Mr Big Special Responsible Boy, he behaves so much better, than when I am on his case all the time. When I first started the praising thing, I found it really hard. He was behaving so badly that I ended up having to say things like "well done, you drank your juice really nicely, thank you" - which sounds so pants, but it really worked. He was chuffed to bits that he had done something well & we slowly made progress.
Funnily enough DD has been so much easier, but I don't know whether that is because I feel more confident and the boundaries are already in place! No idea!!!
So my experience of being repeatedly smacked myself and what has worked with my own children always leads me to conclude that hitting children is not necessary but that teaching them discipline & self control is really hard work.

bugsy - I'm with you on a lot of praise for good behaviour. Our dd now cries if we mention the "naughty" word around her "I'm not naughty... I'm a good girl... boo hoo"
Very funny but also very good - she hates being told that she is naughty or is becoming naughty that we really don't have any trouble with her - she is addicted to praise and is pleasing everyone all day just so she can be told she's a good girl or that's she done well. she helps around the house, tidies her toys and room she's playing in, says please and thank you for everything, does what we say basically. And in return we treat her to things and obviously praise her a lot

A year, Bugsy??? Try 8. Then it's not quite so easy. And yes, we use the praise, the rewards, the recognition of every single wonderful thing he does, along with the start charts, the consequences etc etc etc blah blah blah. We really are quite the experts. Luckily for you, the behaviour didn't last, and your child is not seeing a child psychologist. I'm really very pleased for you. Fortunately we have DD, and the above all work for her, as they should.