Should parents be allowed to SMACK their child?........ Debate on ITV ........ THIS MORNING

[RTKangaMummy]

Smacking

When John Saunders' son began playing up during a shopping trip, he told the boy to behave himself. But the little boy who had rammed a trolley into his older sister, took no notice so his father gave him a slap on the legs. But only four days later John answered a knock at his front door and was confronted by two police officers. John, discovered he was under investigation for assault after a fellow shopper reported him. John joins us today, along with Denise Robertson and Carolyne Willow from the Children's Rights Alliance who believes that there should be a total ban on smacking.

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Caligula the problem with watching programmes such as Supernanny is that we both end up wanting to smack the little angels or laughing incredulously at the apparent ineptitude of the parents!! I realise the cruelty of this and as punishment I myself could some day be in a similar quandry. The good thing is that we do have the opportunity to educate ourselves about the various methods of discipline that have been researched. (I hope I don't sound like too much of a naive new parent!!)

No Bimble, you sound very conscientious and determined to make up your own mind about what's right for your children!! Godd luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

God luck to the rest of us too!

OY!!!!

I dont believe in smacking small children, I would never smack my dd. Putting her on the naughty chair in our hall is enough to make her see what she done wrong and apologise. The threat of sending her the the chair usually stops any bad behaviour too.

But I remember my mum smacking my brothers bottom when he was about five - not very hard but enough to upset him and stop him. He was a nightmare and was such a handful and I can understand my mums frustration at wanting to smack him but thinking back I dont think it did work. He was obviously good for the seconds after the smack and really it was more for my mum to release her anger rather than discipline him. We all feared my father for some reason, he never hit me and i only seen him hit my older sister with a belt once after she went out one evening aged 13 and went missing most of the night. My parents were distraught and calling all her friends so when he found her he was so angry that he hit her. She never let him forget it and it was the only time he hitany of us. So whenever we were naughty my mum would just have to threaten us with "i'll tell your father whne he gets in" and that would be enough.

I am not going to say that i will never ever hit my child but there may be a time when she is older where she runs too close to a busy road that i lose myelf for a minute and smack her bottom with the shock to make her never do it again.

I hope I will restrain myself and talk to her rather than scream and hit, being violent or out of control is not the way i want to teach her to control reactions to life.

I actually remember being smacked. My mother was always a bit 'handy', across the face, head, anywhere. I remember the burning humiliation mostly and the thought that how could someone who was supposed to love me do that.

She was a very angry person so it happened alot and got worse. The smacking was a symptom of a depression that she wasn't either admitting to or coping with. Her sense of not being in control of her life and her emotions was all projected onto the kids. The consequenses of her inablity to do something about her illness has left her a very bitter lonely old woman, none of us are close to her and she lives alone. It sounds very harsh but is a perfect example of getting the life you deserve. I wonder how any other women, men are in the same situation. Just a cautionary tale..

MT - I can relate to what you remember. In my case also it's the humiliation I remember. It was so ritualistic, designed to humiliate, and I felt so sick and powerless. My mother suffered from bi-polar disorder (still does - that's another story!) and yes yes yes, it did do damage. But I waver sometimes because clearly not all parents who smack do it in such a horribly loaded and humiliating way, nor are they generally the parent my mother was. It's such a huge and difficult debate (I've parped twice already!)

Or on the other hand you could have a mother who did smack you occasionally, and who was and is a perfectly happy, lovely person, and who you have a fantastic relationship with. Keep it in perspective, please!

But that's not the type of smacking we're talking about surely? The odd tap is no ones business - we all do our best, as I've said before.. It's endemic, habitual, dare say it ubiquitous smacking that does the damage. How do you legislate against one and not the other?

Well, I think that's a lot of people's point MT - you can't. So unless you do a lot more work to change people's habits and percetions, you can't legislate against either. British society just isn't open to the change you want.

What we're talking about is occasional smacking versus abuse - and the legislation to deal with the latter already exists.

I don't think that legislation exists to deal with the sort of mindless smacking MT is talking about though, Paolosgirl. The sort of smacking which is regular, maybe three or four times a day, not too hard (so not defined as abuse) but lazy and ineffective. I suspect that a large number of smackers go in for that kind of smacking, as opposed to the well-argued, well-thought out, once in a blue-moon smack as part of an overall discipline strategy which includes other methods like time out etc.

But that sort of smacking needs more than legislation imo; it needs a cultural shift in our attitudes to children and a better awareness of effective parenting techniques.

I'm definitely for the cultural shift in attitudes to children - but it takes longer and is harder to achieve than just forcing through a law nobody wants.

you're absolutely right Caligula - it DOES need a cultural shift
but sometimes a change it the law is the only really effective way to change attitudes
e.g. the sex discrimination act, the race discrimination act, the disabilty discrimination act (even the laws against drink driving/wearing seatbelts/car seats) were all "ahead of their time" in that the attitudes they legislated against were still "culturally" acceptable
they changed peoples practices and kickstarted a new norm
and that it what would happen if it was made illegal to hit children

(apols for bad typing lately, am usually bf while posting...)

I agree. We all need to get with the programme!

I have to agree with Caligula and Harpsi; when smacking becomes part of a parents vocabulary it isn't necessarily seen as abuse because the child has no bruises or broken bones but it's something they face everyday for a decade or more during their formative years and no one can intervene on their behalf. What possible threat can this law pose to parents who don't treat their children in this way?

Isn't that how we weigh everything up? Against the possible harm verses the possible good?

Message withdrawn

That is possible. Those who smack ARE often very vociferous when given the opportunity to defend it. Whereas people who don't (like me) often steer clear of smacking debates because it's an upsetting topic which often turns nasty...(but not this time!!)

It's the curse of the DOVES!

?!?!?Wot??

There's an interesting article here Why Tony Blair Turned His Back on Smacking

the woman in that article should be jailed - how dare she raise a hand to a child in a moment of anger. its appaulling, her child will be scarred for life. i think the picture of the hand with that article is also a good reminder to us all that when smackers hit their precious children that they do so with force.

Doves not hawks, MOM, as they define republicans and democrats for example, moderates not extremists..

I still feel we need to think very carefully about how we answer the following, if smacking were ever to be banned.

1. What constitutes smacking? Is it all smacking, every time? What then constitutes abuse?

2. How will you find out if a child has been smacked? Is it only in public that the adult will be charged? Are you going to rely on the child to alert social services/police? Or another adult?

3. How will you prosecute the parents? Will all parents who smack be prosecuted? What will the deciding factors be? Will these parents be forbidden to work with children ever again? Will they have criminal records?

4. What will the punishment be? Fines? Prison? How will you ensure equality when it comes to prosecuting ie will a good lawyer make all the difference?

Bloody good list, PG and makes you realise what a minefield legislation could be.