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Four year old boys are reeeeeeeeeeeeeelly exasperating

101 replies

WinkyWinkola · 12/05/2009 19:00

After a day of his wilful destruction, rages, ignoring my requests to stop misbehaving, breaking toys at his friend's house and shouting of, "KILL, KILL, KILL!" at me whenever I admonish him, I simply do not want the child anywhere near me for hours, if not days. I don't want to hug him or anything.

He's currently in his bed howling because he only got two bedtimes stories instead of his usual four.

I'm not the only one, am I? Some days are so shit.

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Sago · 31/05/2009 08:47

ah, just walked away from a heated incident with my four year old to find this....phew!
But my 4 yr old is a girl!!!!!!
I know the theory about not shouting or getting angry, some days I can do calm parenting, others I can't and then feel bad. or see my angry behaviour reflected in hers, and that is not nice to watch.
Stairs, tea and whiskey may be an ideal time out for me...though have to add chocolate too!

WinkyWinkola · 02/06/2009 21:31

Oh my. I'm not alone! I really felt alone when I started this thread.

I've started putting favoured toys/books/DVDs in a box when DS is misbehaving after I've asked him to stop. He doesn't like that at all especially since he can see the box.

Today all I had to do was remind him about the possibility of another toy going in the box and he stopped pulling his sister's hair.

At last I feel like I have some leverage! Long may it last.

OP posts:
ChesterTown · 02/06/2009 22:00

Great to find so many experts in one place
CanI have your advice re my just turned 4 yr DS. He is like many on here, a whirlwind, doesn't care about being told off, sanctions. He is kind, sensitive, loving, but when in a mood, will hit, pinch, hit things, break things, throw remotes at the TV for example. The amount of things he has damaged at home I have lost count. He only does this really extreme behaviour for family and close friends, not at pre-school, but when he loses it, he really does.
ANYWAY, my question is, how to stop/discipline him? He isn't interested in stickers, doesn't have the patience to wait for rewards (or does, until he loses his temper). He won't stop if you quietly tell him no, distract him or shout. He is very hard to physically restrain as he is very strong. He is very physical in general - very fast and can climb anything. We have to lock things away from him or he will just climb/ do whatever it takes to get them. He can't be left in time-out safely as he throws things hard at the windows, or gets solid toys and makes dents in the walls.
I know he sounds a nightmare, but pre-school say he is a delight. And he is. Just not when he gets mad (maybe 5 times a week).
I do think he is 'normal', and not in need of a diagnosis, but is very determined and hates not doing what he wants...
All and any advice really appreciated

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tamsinmary · 02/06/2009 22:47

God, I don't know! I think we just have to grit our teeth, and persist with our chosen sanctions, even if they seem ineffectual. We are having a period of zero tolerance with our DS- two steps forward, one step back at the moment. I just have to trust that eventually he'll get the message that MUMMY AND DADDY ARE IN CHARGE!
They're all spectacularly difficult in different ways, aren't they? My DS hates not getting his own way, and if thwarted starts being generally unpleasant, telling people he's not their friend, and when that fails to get a reaction, kicking, hitting, biting. Never hard, just to get a reaction. So he gets put in his bed, wails the house down, yells that he'll never be a good boy etc etc. And then he's perfectly lovely. Until the next time.... The only problem now is that today he worked out how to get out of his cotbed. And so it came to pass that at 7 o'clock this evening I was using all my body weight to hold his bedroom door closed as he shrieked and tugged on the other side. I know, I know, really not a great strategy, but I'd tried talking, taking toys away, 'phoning' his friend's mum, all to no avail. I suppose we just have to trust that this too shall pass. Bloody hope so anyway!

ChesterTown · 02/06/2009 22:57

Tamsinmary - I'm afraid this has been a long phase for my DS. He has been like this since toddlerhood. The biting has got less, but the anger at being thwarted is stil as strong. We used to hold the door shut as he hung on the other side, but we had to stop once he realised throwing things at the window was a good ploy to get us in .
He will do well in life, with such strength of character, it is just hard on us. He is very popular with his peers - life and soul of the party . I just wish he had less testosterone and brains...

roundwindow · 07/06/2009 18:03

Hello, another grateful-for-this-thread, mummy-of-a-mini-hooligan here! DS1 (4.11) is gorgeous, cheeky, loud, violent, hyperactive, fond of killing snails, breaks things, clamps his hands over his ears and screams, etc etc... I don't really need to go on. I know you all get the picture!

What's worked for me so far (on the good days, when I'm not doubled over with despair hyperventilating and thinking I actually, properly can't cope with this ) is

Being outside. A lot. In all weathers. Anywhere where there are sticks/mud/sand... etc etc. We have a pretend dog called Bruno who must be taken for a walk every day. He often gets lost and needs to be shouted for very loudly!

Suggesting acceptable versions of all hooligan behavours (eg: you can't throw that glass, but you can throw your ball outside! You can't trample the roses in that persons garden but you can pick as many dandelions and daisies as you want! You can't kick your brother, but you can kick the beanbag! You can't scream here but you can in the woods) doesn't always wash of course but sometimes...

Avoiding lots of socialising with other parents/children.. a bit for me but I realised that his behaviour/my reactions to it were a lot more problematic in company.

Naming emotions when they occur ('it's OK you're angry, it's not OK to hit, when I'm angry I go into another room and go GRRRRR' etc.) in the optimistic hope that he'll learn to verbalise his emotions rather than act them out as he gets older.

Mostly, and like I say, only on the good days, it's a case of riding it out. And in this latter instance it's so hugely helpful to realise that I'm not alone. So thank you all again

halia · 08/06/2009 21:26

chestertwon - I've got a kid like that or I did have. He has calmed down amazingly over the past 3 months. I think a few things have helped.
He has changed from a day nursery to a preschool which challanges him alot more
He gets LOTS more outdoor exercise as we moved to the country
He finally matured a bit and reaslied that the things mummy had been saying for the past 3 years weren't going to change! I said to some other friends that some kids are just more optimistic in the face of NO - they keep trying to see if you will change your midn this time! Others are just more assertive by their very nature. DS comes by it honestly neither me nor DH are very good at being told what to do, very strong headed and independant even as adults. I look at DS and I see the same traits in him.

I've got a whole range of tricks, my latest one is pocket money... early days yet but we've been talking about pennies to pay for things for a while now. So on sunday I counted out 5 silver pennies (5p coins) and told DS they were his for spending. Then I counted out another 5 silver pennies and said that was one for each day - they were in his piggy bank but if he was very naughty then mummy would have to take one away. (hitting etc)

That way he ALWAYS gets 25p (which will buy a glider or a few sweeties). I reminded him about it today and each morning I will say "well done you kept your penny yesterday," or "lets see if you can keep your penny today" if he lost it the day before.

HOWEVER this would NOT have worked even 3 months ago - its only very recently that DS (4.2) has managed to look forward and wait for rewards a bit.

Scrumplet · 08/06/2009 23:21

Oh, Winky. I sympathise. My DS (five later this week) could be your son. He doesn't flare up every day, but a few times a week, yes, and they are SUCH big, out-of-control outbursts that I'm a bit at a loss as to what to do. So I do feel for you.

NotSoRampant, your post about your DS lifting things up in the flooring shop and declaring his strength made me smile. My DS does the same thing - keeps going on about his muscles getting bigger. There is a testosterone surge that spans this age, I think (well, Steve Biddulph thinks so), which explains the hike in aggression, rage and look-how-strong-I-am stuff. I blimmin' hope this is the explanation for some of DS's behaviour!

I'd second the recommendation for the 'How To Talk ...' book. However, I'm not finding it a panacea. It got me through last week without a blip. Then DS lost it Saturday morning when he remembered I would be going out for a few hours in the afternoon - shouting in my face about not wanting me to go, and if I did go, he'd punch me in the face. (I never speak to him like this BTW - again, I am hoping it's this testosterone thing ... he's a huge boy for his age, and grows like a weed ... so maybe has a lot of testosterone ... I'm clinging to this one!) He told me he didn't love me, my parents, my family, himself, that we're all rubbish - all the while with my learning disabled sister in earshot, who then burst into tears. I tried to stay calm and handle it a la 'How To Talk ...' but you know what, it just went on and on, and I had to restrain him because he was bashing me/stuff around him. We were both a bit shell-shocked after that, TBH, and for all my compassion and acknowledgement of his big, angry feelings, I felt like a well-worn doormat, TBH.

Another one of these episodes started building on Sunday morning. I find it so disrespectful, and didn't want to feel like a doormat again, and so I held him firmly by the shoulders, and borderline shouted at very close range, that he was being incredibly rude and disrespectful, and that I had had enough. I would not tolerate it anymore. (OK, maybe not my best line ...) But it worked. How can I teach him to respect me if I don't respect myself? He was as nice as pie afterwards and, touch wood, has been lovely since. He's lovely company most of the time - funny, interesting, sweet, bright - but it's as though he's a little volcano which erupts every few days.

He's a fan of all things poo, wee, bum, farts, etc, too.

I'm so grateful DS has become a cycling fan since he jettisoned his stabilisers at Easter. That's our energy outlet sorted until it gets frosty again.

Grateful for this thread, too. Don't feel so much now like I'm doing a shit job, and that this is just how it will be sometimes/for a while. Hope you're all finding ways to handle this phase.

thehouseofmirth · 09/06/2009 04:22

I posted on the similar thread in behaviour but that one seems to have petered out but I'm glad to see this one's still going strong.

DS who will be 4 in July un-invites me to his birthday party on an almost daily basis and frequently expresses his desire to leave home and go and live in South America... Am unable to work out if it is linked to arrival of DS as it started whilst I was pregnant but also he started afternoon nursery around the same time too so really have no idea what's causing it. Having said that he is his mother's son and at a similar age I told my poor mother that I liked records better than her!

I do find, bloody hard as it is, being super-nice to him really works, so if he is aggressive I bark "come here" in a really stern voice and then give him a big hug instead of the telling off he was obviously expecting (and quite often gets when I am not feeling so patient and resourceful) and that seems to help. But not always. Very interested to hear any other non-punishment techniques that you are having success with.

MogTheForgetfulCat · 13/06/2009 22:25

Another grateful recipient of this thread!

My DS1 is 3.4, and well on his way to being one of these reeeeeeeally exasperating 4yos. He can be absolutely delightful - having grunted his way to the age of 2, he is now very verbal and chatty, with a vivid imagination. And he has bags of energy, is generally a loving big brother to DS2 (1.4).

But oh my god, the rages are just so ferocious, and when in a strop he lashes out at anyone and everything. He'll also cut off his nose to spite his face, which I find particularly infuriating - I warn him not to do X again or I'll do Y/take Y away, and he always, always does X again. Sigh.

Like someone else earlier on this thread, I can do calm parenting some of the time, but then occasionally really blow up at him, which I then feel v crap about. I liked "How to Talk..." but found that DS1 didn't acquiesce in quite the way it implied... But definitely find that being calm and nice is the way forward - it is just sooooo hard some days!

ToriJ · 27/06/2009 22:36

Wow, a huge sigh of relief after reading your posts. My son is 4 and a half and has always been prone to tantrums etc, on and off. The last couple of weeks though have been sheer hell, with up to 3 corking tantrums a day over the silliest things that I haven't even challenged to cause him to be that way! They seem to come about from his own contradictions. He is a bright, very affectionate and kind little boy, but with this crazy side. I really thought my parenting skills were being reduced to negative, especially as I taught Early Years for 14 years! I can't recall ever seeing behaviour like it in a professional sense, except from the odd child with recognised special needs. He is apparently a lovely little boy at preschool. But at home he is sooooo wilful, shouts, kicks, punches, hands over his ears and sheer frustration. I want to help but nothing I do seems to work. I also get it in the neck from the husband who thinks I'm pathetic with my vast range of strategies to try to alleviate everyone's suffering during this time (especially my son's). A couple of friends suggested it was testosterone, and I had never heard of the surge they are suppossed to get around this age. But after coming on here I feel hugely reassured that a) my son's normal, and b) I'm not a crap mother! Thanks guys.

ToriJ · 28/06/2009 10:23

Halia, I have just read back some more and found your message of 27 May.

It describes my DS to a T. He is just like that. They don't understand patience, and broken record doesn't even come close! I did have a chuckle - not at you, but with you - out of sheer relief that I am not alone!!!

It's the "Mummy, Mummy I want you", then "Go away!" cycle that gets me. I have learned now not to go to him straight away. It takes a good bit of his screaming from him to let me hug him and calm him down and talk to him.

Oh the joys! I love him to bits though. He is a real Mummy's boy and just one of his special moments is worth a million of the horrible ones.

Rebecca41 · 28/06/2009 11:04

I'm SO glad I found this thread! I might print it out and keep it for those dark moments.

My DS will be 4 in August, and he's a total nightmare at times lately. Honestly, people warned me about the "terrible 2s", but that was nothing compared to this.

Sometimes he wakes in the morning and the first thing he says is "I don't want to live here with you any more, I want to live with Gran and Grandad" - so I feel homicidal before I've even got my eyes open! The desire to say "OK go and live with them then, see how you like it" is overwhelming.

This morning he asked for icecream for breakfast. Thinking I was being an very kind Mummy, I said he could have icecream after he'd eaten some apple. The apple was eaten (with a fair amount of moaning), so I presented him with a delicious bowl of raspberry icecream. But guess what - it was too pink. Major meltdown.

He behaves appallingly several times a day, then has the audacity to tell me to apologise for telling him off!

I feel desperately saddened by the constant conflict, especially as he will start school soon, and I feel like our lovely Mummy-and-son days will come to an end on a bad note.

DontSweattheSmallStuff · 03/05/2010 23:27

I know this is an old thread but just had to bump it. I saved it in my Threads I'm watching for future reference cos i knew i'd want to refer to it in the future. I'm so relieved to see that apparently 4 year old ds is actually behaving quite normally after all!. It makes the amazing tantrums over not being able to have a sweet or some other trivial event slightly more bearable.

juliedennis74 · 06/05/2010 17:18

Thank goodness for netmums. Suddenly I realise I am not completely alone out there with a psychotic 4 year old. I was starting to wonder!

I have questioned my sanity, my parenting skills (on many an occasion)and whether adoption might be best for both me and my son!

Maybe we can get through this after all. I can relate to so much of what everyone else is going through. Again, I know this is an old thread but it came up on a search engine and has saved me!

My son isn't violent (yet) although he often threatens it in major outbursts and tantrums. I have the "I'm not going to be your friend any more" and various other outbursts including that he does not wish to be part of the family any more.

He has an answer for everything and although I love the fact that he is bright and spirited it has worn me into the ground.

I try to stay calm but anyone who knows me will say that patience is not my strong point and he really knows what buttons to push and when just to wind me up. I end up shouting, he ends up shouting and thenm he will melt down into a major tantrum and by bthen, I just don't care any more.

So far he has been good at nursery school (thank goodness) but he has now started wetting himself both at school and at home. He has never been perfect with the toilet training but he is a lazy boy at the end of the day. He now does it just as an act of defiance as he will stand in front of you and do it. We have tried punishing and rewards and he just doesn't seem to care.

What the answer is I don't know. He is obviously trying to gain some power and control and I have no idea whether to come down hard or ignore it.

I am exhausted and my poor adorable little girl who is 13 months and an angel does not get the attention she deserves.

I feel better knowing I am not alone but answers would be great. I fear the only answer is time. As others have said, roll on September but again I hate to wish my life away and also any precious time I should be enjoying with him.

TomsMumLP · 30/03/2011 22:36

This is still a brilliant thread! I have just found it through google. Now I know my son is normal! Perhaps I need to show this to his nursery teacher!

bacon · 06/09/2013 16:52

Thank The Lord for reading all the other mums who are/have suffered from spending time with a 4 yr old!!!

QTPie · 07/09/2013 19:37

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hotbot · 07/09/2013 20:08

Snap, so relieved its not just me, I once asked ds not to do something and he looked at me very defiantly and say what punishment will I get if I do it.
He is 3 , it did make me secretly smile , the little git was working out if it was worth it or not !

deakymom · 07/09/2013 22:08

where are we going? to the shop at the top... why for? to look for a washing machine......................where are we going? why do you need a new washing mushim? is the old one broken? (he was there when i broke it so he KNOWS the answer to that) what happened to it? what shop are we going to? argos.......why for? a washing machine (really wishing i could walk faster and get this shopping trip over with) is it broken then? cant we fix it? do we really need to get one? today? what do we need it for anyway? (walking so fast now nearly mowed down a granny in a wheelchair) MOM! MOOOOOOOM why do we NEEEEEEEED one for WHY MOM WHY?......why are we running?

you are not alone ive had such a hard day with my three today i honestly feel the baby is the only one who loves me the other two have been horrible my teen refuses to speak and answer simple questions and she is warned if she ignores us one more time she will be punished (total silence from her) warned again warned about five times so she is punished and she grizzles like a baby because WE are not being fair to her (all she had to do is say "im sorry" maybe an "i will try better next time" but nope she prefers to be punished) followed by a four year old who asks the same questions over and over and over again can i have a cake please? yes when we are leaving town not before (he strops if we give him a cake before we are finished) are we finished yet? (not even out of the car i can see where this is going cant you?) are we done yet? no are we done yet? no, are we? if you ask again you wont get anything. FINE! (not fair my moms mean to me) chatting to my husband and he is repeatedly slapping my hand to get my attention (just a minute im trying to speak) he then begins to scream and writhe like he is on fire I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING okay okay yes? CAN I HAVE MY CAKE NOW? AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGG

quickchat · 08/09/2013 18:52

This takes me back! My DS1 went from adorable to a total pain in the ass around 3.5.

In saying that he was never overly violent. I did have the odd 'red face in cafe moments' but he was just sooooo annoying and hyper. He'd growl in other childrens faces CONSTANTLY and Id see other parents staring at him or me Blush.

He is now 6 and he is the easiest child ever. He is such a laid back wee boy. Kind and gentle.

I now have a 3.5 yr old DD and a 1 yr old DS.

I have to say DD's can be as much a pain in the ass at this age for different reasons. I do thing all DC's, regardless of gender, go through a pushing the boundaries phase between 3-5.

OK, im never scared DD will growl in anyone's face or bop anyone.

I find little girls getting together for a play date cute.
I find little boys getting together (even still at 6) AWFUL. Noisy, violent and destructive.
DD will however MOAN WHINE MOAN WHINE MOAN WHINE MOAN me to near tears. Im not allowed to talk to anyone except her. If she gets a row we deal with the aftermath for hours. How dare we!!

The only word I have to describe a 3.5-5 yr old Boy is - ANNOYING.
The only word i have to describe a 3.5-5yr old GIRL is - EXASPERATING

Im not sure which is worse but another 2 years from now I will be back to needing a tranquilliser dart with DS2!

DownstairsMixUp · 08/09/2013 19:01

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QTPie · 08/09/2013 19:08

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VitoCorleone · 08/09/2013 19:10

Today my 4 year old smashed my 51" flatscreen tv.

I actually cried.

mrsmarzipan · 09/09/2013 22:18

What is it with 4 yr old boys and sticks?!! We have a stick collection next to the door too (god forbid the dog touches them otherwise its the end of the world!).
My adorable ds has also developed selective hearing. He can't seem to hear anything I ask but can hear the top of the biscuit tin opening from the bottom of the garden!!!

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