Four year old boys are reeeeeeeeeeeeeelly exasperating

[WinkyWinkola]

After a day of his wilful destruction, rages, ignoring my requests to stop misbehaving, breaking toys at his friend's house and shouting of, "KILL, KILL, KILL!" at me whenever I admonish him, I simply do not want the child anywhere near me for hours, if not days. I don't want to hug him or anything.

He's currently in his bed howling because he only got two bedtimes stories instead of his usual four.

I'm not the only one, am I? Some days are so shit.

It does just seem to be inherent in little boys - the aggressive actions and noises. DS is obsessed with sticks at the moment and makes every stick into a "fire stick" and makes a shooting noise. He'll do it for an hour at a time, in the garden and not get bored - it's as if he just has to. In evolutionary terms (though I am about evolutionary psychology generally), it is an instinct to kill (animals for food etc), and small boys do seem to have an urge to play at it.

DP is a linguist and told me there is something that boys do where they stick their lips out in a kind of trumpet shape to make a deeper vocal sound. Apparently almost all boys start doing it at around 3 and it's thought to be a way of seeming bigger and stronger as they play fight and practise aggression. I do think there is a natural "boy thing" element to all this - but it doesn't preclude you having a boy who is also sensitive and caring.

My third child is due at the end of October. It sounds terrible but I dread another boy in case he's like my first and there'll be more years of the same stress and strain on my family due to such anger and aggression.

I wonder if girls can be the same? I remember reading Deborah Spungen's book about her daughter (who was Sid Vicious' gf) growing up and how difficult she was. I can relate to her now! Except DS hasn't yet chased anyone with a pair of scissors. God forbid.

Rabbit I find the poos and bums thing terrible as it makes me laugh and destroys my "authoritative" poise (well such as it is). A 4yo boy only has to say "poo bum breath" to me and I collapse into giggles. NOT good

I think its a general thing with 3/4 yo boys. Had a lot of problems with DS at 4 hitting others in class and big temper tantrums. We worked with school on it by taking away treats if there was hitting in class during the week and he eventually grew out of it. His teacher commented that he was an affectionate, emotional boy and the temper was just the other side of this.

He is now 7 and a lovely sensitive boy, loves babies and fluffy animals , very protective and loving. But he also loves a good rough and tumble in the playground with his mates.

Stick with it, it will get better.

rough and tumble play with you or Dad can be a good way to burn off aggression - only if in a good mood and with clear rules. Even just tickle fights and putting upside down.

Hmm - I think I need to join you with this one. DS1 turned 4 in March and he has turned in to a flaming ball of testosterone. Playfights are his main think at the moment - he wants to be a power ranger - that is from pre school as he has never watched it here

He doesnt listen, he refuses to take instruction - in short - he is being a little shit.

I find it hard as he has a nearly 3 year old brother and they feed off each other at the moment.

Aparently this is all normal though and just a phaze

By the time 6 oclock comes round I am so ready to hand over to daddy and walk out

We are having our first night out in over three years tonight - we are off to the pictures to watch star trek. I am hoping that they behave for my mum, as it will also be our last if they dont

Enjoy your night out, MadHouse, you've earned it!

ds will probably behave better with his GM, they always save their most revolting behaviour for good old mum!

Don't worry, it gets better.

Don't get me wrong muffle - there's nothing I love more than a good fart noise/joke! It's just the repetitive raspberrying (especially defiant raspberrying) that is starting to wear a little thin.

Agree that a good rough and tumble is helpful. I'm not able to do that right now (37 weeks pg), but DH is the Tickle Monster and able to render DS helpless with just a waggle of his fingers.

Funny re the "fire sticks" - DS does that too. Everything is a fire-car, fire-stick etc.

It is fascinating that all of this seems to develop regardless of outside influence. No power rangers here, but DS often talks about them. He has been shooting sticks since about age 2.

Crikey - I hope this one's a girl!

I have total sympathy with this thread. My DS was 4 last month and ignores my instructions and has recent;y hit another boy at nursery (teacher says he is led by another who is a bully).
This week he has refused to go to bed without a total tantrum (foot stamping, red-faced - didn't do this as a 2yo). Says he's scared of the dark but leaving light on and door open and reassurance do nothing.
Last night he screamed for 1.5 hours - I thought he was going to be sick.
I'm 40 weeks pregnant and thought it was worry over that, but reading this thread makes me think it's coincidence.
Keep strong ladies, we will overcome......

Yes yes, my 4-year-old is just the same!

I have been reliably informed by my health visitor that between 4 and 5 little boys get a massive surge of testosterone, which is what makes them so aggressive and shouting this "kill, kill, kill" stuff all the time. Also makes them incapable of following instructions as all their energy is going into thumping things and they simply can't hear what you are saying.

It's completely normal.

I get called "poo poo mummy" a lot when he is very angry at not getting another cup of juice/chocolate cake for supper etc etc.

It helps to know that I am not alone, but he his being a nightmare for his GM at the moment.

I even had words with the head of Nursery (Preschool) this morning and asked if was like that there - she told me he is always on perfect behaviour and will be hiolding it in there and letting it out at home

Its the not getting in the car seat that really pisses me off

Oh god the car seat - my DS turns into some kind of strange sloth while getting in and out of the car. I bribe him shamelessly - "Oh look I have a bit of choc left, I'll eat it in 5 seconds unless you are in your car seat by then, and I'll give it to you". It works.

Enjoy star trek MadHouse - we loved it.

Oh dear, i so wish i hadn't read this thread! It looks like i am in for a lot of fun and games over the next few years (and of the variety i have very little patience for - aggressive, maco type behaviour makes my blood boil) Ds1 (3.3) is already showing the odd glimmer of the type of behaviour that you are all describing and with a ds2 following hot on his heels all i can say is oh dear

Good luck to all of you going through this now, must be incredibly tough going

macho even

I do know some very sweet four year old boys though. Take heart. after another vile day.

god my ds is only 6 months old, this thread has terrified me!

It's all coming back to me. We definitely went through this and it's only looking back that I realise how much easier ds has become. We used to have hours of screaming every day. Still get the odd rage now (he will turn 6 next month), but more likely now is muttering insults under his breath as he stomps up the stairs. Or like today, when sent upstairs for repeated tormenting of sister, a note came floating down the stairs a few minutes later which read "Mummee your so mean."

Progress. And a reason to learn to write too.

Apologies but this thred has made me feel so much better - I'm not alone with my DS1 who will be 4 in just under 2 weeks!

He can be the most loving, kind, sensitive child but is also capable of violence, shouting, rages etc from nowhere. We have "let's play killing" suggestions to his best friend ! DH gets very cross with him particularly for the hitting but I wonder if he can't help it - not providing an excuse for my pfb just trying to understand him... Although the extreme bossiness is the worst - he shouts at us, his younger brother, best mates etc most of whom simply ignore him and it drives him wild with frustration. However, doing what he wants just teaches him that shouting orders is ok??

I am also expecting our third in a couple of months but DS! (generally!) is a very caring big brother so am actually more worried about DS2 (currently 2.1).

Will follow this thread with interest to see if anyone has any gems of wisdom...

My DS has just turned 3 and I was relieved to leave the terrible 2's behind but what lies ahead sounds even worse. I have noticed he is getting quite cheeky and is simply not in the least bit bothered if i get cross with him.

Apparently boys have a huge testosterone surge at around age 4 so could this explain their aggressive behaviour?

Well this is all very reassuring lol!

I have a DS who is 4 next month and I am soooo fed up with the noise, its unbearable! Shouting...alot, esp when things don't go his way and also just loads and loads of general noise for noise's sake iykwim.

I am forever saying DS CALM DOWN or DS STOP THE NOISE! Its literally driving me mad.

He has some very mild autistic traits and I have been blaming them but maybe this is all very normal after all . Am told not to get my hopes up for this year either and to wait until he is at least 5 ....lovely!

Removal of toys, naughty step, threatening of no more sweets. Failing all of this, a smacked leg. 'only a tap' dont go overboard. Oh surpose I will get all the usual comments for advising on something that is 'not politically correct' Good luck my dear.

NotSoRampantRabbit you have really made me laugh with your comment, I have a son and you are so right.

I so sympathise with fellow owners of 4yo boys. DS can be lovely, but he is exasperating!

"I can't wear those shoes because they are too big." (Shoes that I know are nearly too small for him).

"I don't want my jacket because it makes me too cold."

Refuses to wear a shirt under fancy dress costume with velcro fastenings, then tantrums about velcro scratching his skin.

Cries and Complains about shoes/tags on shirts/anything, but forgets about the problem completely if I promise him a chocolate raisin later (although he rarely remembers to collect on the chock raisin).

SCREAMS if older siblings run or cycle faster than he can.

FIGHTS over things that he never cared about but suddenly his siblings want to play with.

SCREAMS if people don't pay attention when he's talking.

Name-calls and hits a lot, I never had this problem at all with his older brother and sister, until DS started thumping them when he was about 18m old.

Throws things when angry; have never rid him of that habit. The worst advice I heard on MN for rampant throwers was to lead them to another room where they would be allowed to throw different things as much as they want, as if a 4yo would have enough self-composure to remember to do that and it would satisfy their immediate destructive desire, anyway!!

Frequently says "I love you" and insists on kisses goodbye at school, too, though.

Oh my god, this thread is so good. Please come back and help me not lose the plot with my ds1 (4.1) who is testing me to the nth degree of late.

My DS is 7 and we had no probs with him, he's lovely, caring and thoughtful, sporty and clever. .
HOWEVER.....my dd was 4 two weeks ago. She fits this thread perfectly. In a girly way of course. Still says things about dying and killing. And she shoots people. Tantrums, selective hearing etc etc etc. .