would you let your 11Y DS play 18 certificate games?

[sanae]

My 11 yr old DS keeps complaining that all his friends play 18 certificate games on their consoles- medal of honour, grand theft auto etc. We have said no to this, and I thought it was just a case of "my friends are all allowed to...." pushing the limits. But I was surprised when I asked around to find that their children are playing these things -even down to some 7 year olds. The parents all seem "nice" respectable people and to be fair the kids all seem well balanced. Are we being too protective? - he has watched these things at their houses without us realising so it's not as though he isn't seeing them at all. Is there a big difference between 18 cert. content in films, which I certainly wouldn't let him watch, and games? What do you let your kids do?

Equally there is an interesting book "Toxic childhood" by Sue Palmer which talks about the negative impact of computer games/too much TV etc etc. Should add that for several years as a child we didn't have a TV and I didnt miss it at all. We just read more and did more as a family like swimming/walks etc.

www.amazon.co.uk/Toxic-Childhood-Modern-Damaging-Children/dp/0752873598

I remain unconvinced.

That's not quite true Riven, there are plenty of parents who enjoy these games in their spare time but are aware that to alow young children to play them is irresponsible. A bit like enjoying a glass of whisky in the evening - nothing wrong with that, but it would be crazy to allow children free access to it.

I think it's lazy and an abdication of responsibility to say "I don't censor anything, my children can work it all out for themselves." There are patently some things which are appropriate for adults but not for children. They can't and don't make all the right and sensible conclusions for themselves - they're children. It's a parent's job to ensure that they are not exposed to too much violence/porn etc. Parenting is an active proces, it shouldn't consist of sitting on your arse saying "do what you like, it's only computergames/films, you know it's not real".

I'm a pretty liberal parent too, but there are limits ffs!

But if the console-using-parent considers GTA and other violent games to be appropriate for a young child, that's no better (in fact possibly worse) than a non-console-using parent allowing it. It's the same game

I agree Greensleeves, sometimes as a parent we need to make choices for our children, even if we are liberal parents most of the time.

I can't see the virtue in bypassing censorship, IMP censorship is very important when kids and young and impressionable.

Riven you could find "research" to support just about any philosophy - it don't make it right.

Exposing children to violence knowingly isn't taking children seriously, it's abdicating your responsibility and not taking their upbringing seriously IMO.

...and I note that you seem to spend quite a lot of your time (on MN at least) being a "one woman flag waver" - have you ever wondered why the weight of opinion seems to be against you? It must be very tiring.

TBE I know what these games are like, dh and I used to play (well I most to watch, mostly ) before we had children. I'm all for allowing children to explore adult issues and taking their views seriously - but it's quite difficult to argue that letting them play violent/pornographic games at a young age is the enlightened thing to do.

I do personally think there are some absolutes in parenting, yes. To me allowing this sort of free exposure to violence (and the other unnattractive features in these games) is on a par with hitting/swearing at children. I do realise that others may not share my views, but isn't that why we have debating forums?

Oh, I see. I'm referring to games like GTA and its spinoffs, Doom, other 18rated games which involve violence/law-breaking/prostitution/reference to drugs. I can't speak for other 18rated games which contain none of these elements

I must say when it comes to films etc, I don't slavishly adhere to ratings - if I felt a film rated 12 contained nothing my children couldn't handle, I would let them watch it. But that doesn't happen very often, because I find that generally things which are rated higher - particularly things rated 18, and even more particularly the games Riven has referred to - are rated at that level for very sound reasons.

I do think there are some absolutes though. No hitting/swearing at children/witholding food, for exaple. To me (and I know others differ!) not deliberately exposing them to violence etc is just as important as those things. The "shagging" hookers for health points makes me feel sick tbh - the thought of a child playing that is disgusting.