Anyone with DCs less clever than you used to be? How do you cope?

[Stillanawfulparent]

I've name-changed for obvious reasons. I posted about this some months ago and things are getting worse, not better. I need advice.

I had DD at barely 19. Her father is not around at all. I'd known her father since I was 15 and he was charming, funny and I fell for him big time. He certainly wasn't as academic as I was, but tbh it didn't really matter to me at the time. Then I became pregnant at 18, he vanished and since then I've been a lone parent.

DD is now nearly 8. She's thoughtful, caring, funny, pretty and I love her to pieces. But I'm struggling more and more with the fact that she's not as academic as I am.

I know I'll be flamed for this. I know there are parents whose children have real problems of some sort. But I just don't know how to cope with DD's attitude towards learning. For example, she really isn't interested in books or reading. I just want to cry when she states that 'books are boring'. I've read fluently from the age of two, my house is filled with books, I can't imagine not wanting to read.

I'm so jealous of parents at school whose children are happily reading for hours each day. I want my DD to be a bookworm, to be preocious, to be the top of the class as I was. I want her to go to Oxford like I did. I want her to be academically competitive and to have a fierce desire for learning. I want her to excel.

I feel so ashamed to write this, but things are getting more and more difficult as we battle over things like reading and homework. I rant and rave like a lunatic, telling her that reading and enjoying books is 'non-negotiable' God knows why I think my negative attitude will help.

I have very little patience in terms of teaching or explaining things. I feel that she should just 'know' the answer, like I used to at her age. Again, totally irrational.

I also wish in many ways that she wasn't an only child. If I had three or four children, I could relax and let them develop at their own rate, since the odds are that one might be 'the clever one', another might be 'the kind one' another 'the pretty one' and so on. With just one child, I'm putting so many expectations on her it's not fair.

I'm in therapy, I know that I'm irrational over this. I also know that intelligence does not equate to happiness - I admit I'm screwed up.

But is there anyone else in a similar situation. Has anyone had children with some less intelligent than them that perhaps knows a little of what I'm going through. I'm wracked with guilt and wish I could just chill out and let her get on with her life. I know the more stressed I get, the worse things will be.

Any words of advice?

stillanawfulparent - I can understand you.

i have a tale to tell you about coping with this.

I am also top uni educated and was succesful city lawyer for many years - 1st class degree etc. I married dh who was not academic but had other qualities ( obviously i guess!).

When we had dd1 I naturally assumed ( in fact it didn't occur to me otherwise) that she'd set the world alight with her intellignec. It soon dawned on me that though she was in teh top groups at school that she wasn't top by any means and as the years went on she was firmly in the middle.

Next child had major health complications meaning that his learning was compromised ( left repcetion unable to read). Has now made massive strides towards top of class but for about 6 years was firmly in bottom few.

next child I thought " this is the one". Precocious and an early talker she appeared full of promise....Alas....she too was middle and then in bottom!!!

At this point I realised one good hard lesson. Sounds trite but is so true. My kids were not and never would be me. They had their own unique qualities which would see them through instead. For e.g. dd1 is a striking beauty and I mean striking - we regularly get stopped in the street etc - long black silky hair ,skinny figure, green eyes etc. Ds1 is the most well mannered considerate child you cold imagine ( regularly wins awards at school) and far and away the most popular - eveyrone knows they can be assured of a warm reception fromo him and no bullying or nastyness. Dd2 is muscial and can sing like a nightingale- I cuold never ever hold a tune.

cue the birth of dd3 and by now a very relaxed mummy. Everyone reapeated same words - she's so bright etc ( early talker). Yeah yeah said I . Low and behold in reception she is the brightest - funny that. Now she is my 4th I don't bloody acre and am more focused on teaching her socail skills and behaviour.

On to my 5th. He's just 3 and reading. Do I care ? No as he doesn't mix well and is much too much of a softie and constantly getting picked on by others in his class.

So my advice would be - don't project your aims/opinions and standards of merit on to your child as she will surprise you with other talents and attributes whcih might otherwise go unnoticed. Also, some kids are late developers anyway - my ds1 that I mentioned never read until he was 9 and now is an avid bookworm.

I'm the same actually Stillanawfulparent - but unlike you I dont see it as something that my ds has done - rather something that I havent done, or an unable to do.

I am aware that my mother was an incredible teacher - and that was why I was reading fluently when I started school etc. Had she been around now and was living with us I have no doubt that my ds would be further along than he is - but guess what - she isnt and he isnt and it doesnt matter.

[cliche alert - apologies]Children are what they are and no amount of wishing will make it otherwise - far better to hope for them to be happy and find something that they are good at than ruin the small amount of time we have with them by projecting the our own aspirations onto them.

Well I sort of thought my children would be like me academically. Swotty little bookworms. But they are not like me in any respect.

And you know, I am glad about that. It took me aback big time - as it is doing you - but honestly peace comes in celebrating the differences.

Neither of them is obsessive about books like I was, but then I am out there with a tiny minority of freakishly obsessive loons when it comes to books. Instead of books, they have loads more friends, they are attractive, they are sporty, and they are reasonably academic too. Academic enough so that pretty well most careers will be open to them. Admittedly, they're not going to be the next Stephen Hawkings but then again, neither are they going to be Olympic gymnasts or world class swimmers.

You say yourself that intelligence does not equal happiness. In fact, I often wonder if there's some kind of inverse correlation between intelligence and happiness. You cannot logically want your daughter to be a tortured genius.

I'd suggest that you work at making reading more fun than than the alternatives and be a bit less strident about it. Make half an hour every night a special Mummy-DD time where you can snuggle up with a book that she (not you) wants to read. Make it giggly and do the voices and see if she picks it up and continues with it when you've gone.

Is this really to do with whether you feel your dd is like you and your connection with her?
When one of my dcs loves a song i loved in the70s or agrees who will win x factor,i get a happy thrill of recognition thru me.
They say we mirror our friends and partners when we're bonding with them,is this what you find distressing,that you don't have this academia in common?
or do you feel she is representing you in some way and you feel she should be perfect?
I would guess you must have perfectionist traits to have achieved as you did,from within.
Try to separate who you are from her,becos you could spend all this time worrying she is not" good enough "and find at 12,14,16,she has talents you never dreamed of and that you yourself never had!

How did you discover your love of books? Were your parents positively supportive in your learning? Perhaps you could try and discover what outside influences you had that were psoitive in your learning and replicate them.

Sounds patronisingly simple, for which I apologise. I too have had a little difficulty in this area - I was top of the class, complete bookworm, physics and maths scolarships, represented my county at many different sporting disciplines, was in PC Modern Pentathlon teams, highly competitive etc.

DD is 9, completely non competitive, non sporty, has dyspraxia, high verbal IQ (over 141 at age 7)although average within classroom, cannot ride at more than a walk despite having our own ponies, cannot ride a bike etc although she is a bookworm, but in an 'absent from reality' way. I feel I resented her a little for not being 'better' at everything when her peers were excelling.

I was amking her, and me, very miserable indeed as every maths homework ended in frustration and irritation. She felt a failure and my reaction was making it much worse.

So, instead of concentrating on changing her I concentrated on me. How could I change my approach to ensure I didn't further damage what little self esteem/confidence she had left? How could I undo all the damage that the tutting, sighing and quiet disappiontment had inflicted?

I have taken several parenting courses, mostly re positive parenting, I have read several books on the subject. I am currently attending a course called 'The Incredible Years' which is very interesting, as is a book called The Parent/Child Game.

Has it made my DD cleverer? Well, no. Has it made her more confident and more able to speak out in class or at home without fear of failure or censure? Yes

You cannot change her, but you can change how you react to her.

I also meant to add, that although she is not an only my DS has severe SN so is unlikely to ever live independently let alone go to uni. So the pressure is on her in a similar way.

It isn't a question about coping with your child being less academic than you are, it is all about loving your child for who they are, not what they might become.

I chose to follow my own path in life, not the one my parents so vehemently wanted me to.

Do they love me any less for doing so?

No.

A happy person is one who's found their niche in life, that suits their ability and temperament. That's really what you want for your DD isn't it? From your posts I think you know the answer.

BTW I think Lisalisa's post is revealing. With one child you don't have any other benchmark. You can't help feeling your child is a direct result of your parenting. I know some other large families, and despite having similar upbringing, the children have a dazzling range of different talents and characters, from bookworm to sports star to artist.

Yes blithedance - that's what i have found. Each child is so very very different. Things that never caught with me or that I never considered important are major factors for my kids - singing, drama, art ( my first dd is a great artist - i could never draw an still draw stick people like a 5 yr old!).

Look at your darling dd again with new eyes stillanawfulparent and you will notice new talents and other areas that you can nurture. Then her academic ability may just creep up on you in her later years without yuo even realising any more. Good luck.

I found with me part of it was worrying that we wouldn't be able to enjoy things together. I am now finding this fear was exaggerated. Ds may not be teaching himself dead languages from a dictionary- in fact, he is still struggling with learning to write in his own language- but we still both thrill to the same images in The Hound of the Baskervilles (which I am reading aloud to him), we still both enjoyed the Holbein exhibition, he is still a very thoughtful little lad whom I can really enjoy having a conversation with. As long as the fun is there, I don't need the performance. But I needed to relax, in order for the fun to be there.

And I am learning from my dcs social skills (inherited from my MIL, I suspect- certainly not from me!) and sometimes asking my dd's advice on how I come across.

I think you've got a lot of good advice on here.

Your dd sounds wonderful - gorgeous and well rounded and a proper human being.

I think you DO need to address with your therapist why conventional "success" is so important to you. It's obviously really deep seated and not something you can rationalise your way out of, because you sound aware and full of insight.

Just for the record, I am someone whose parents tried to mould them big style. I WAS academically gifted but my interests were in writing/performance/music. It's taken me until my mid-late thirties to finally get on the path that I wanted to be on, via depression, addiction, and lots of turbulence. I am now trying not to FORCE my kids to be creative, and am trying to encourage dd2 who seems to want to be an engineer.

Good luck.

OP,
You went to Oxford yet you think intelligent can only mean academic??!

I think she means 'intellectual'.

OP (I cannot bring myself to call you awful parent!)- i have been thinking about you in the dead of the night while trying to get my screaming baby back to sleep... bear in mind those are 2 am thoughs so they range from the completely pathetically ridiculous to perhaps mildly helpful...

starting with the ridiculous... emmm (embarrassed-at-lowering-the-tone-of-the-discussion emoticon) have you ever watched Gilmore Girls? it's a show about a single mum who had her daughter at 16 and, granted, it's fictional and moreover the daughter is some kind of academic genius so you may feel that's kind of salt in the wound for you, BUT you did mention something about "daily mail view of single parents" and this show is the perfect antidote to that, as not only the two girls are beautiful but they are cool beyond belief and they have a really great relationship and it's just a fun show :-)

[and by revealing my taste for trashy US tv i give you a shining example of what a waste my stellar academic career has been ]

the slightly more serious thought i had was re your counselling. i am sure it's working but in case you wanted to give something new a try, have you heard of the Anna Freud Centre in Hampstead? it specialises in therapy for family dynamics and you can self-refer (it's free). i think perhaps they may have something (groups, one to one sessions, or family sessions?) that could work for your situation?

I haven't had internet access until now - thank you everyone for all your messages.

beforesunrise - thank you for suggestion about Anna Freud Centre. It's something I'll definitely look into.

MarmadukeScarlet - Could you possibly suggest any websites or other information where I can find out about parenting classes?

Your child is an individual and you can't make her enjoy books. Just accept her for who she is and don't keep on trying to change her.

loupiots

please don't say that about yhour ds. I couldn't read properly untill I was 11, had attrsiouc spelling but in the end got 4 As at alevel, wenrt to oxford (where I got a top 1st) and now have a PhD and am anacademic. I wish I could go back and find my primary teachers and tell them so they know not to pigeon hole poeple as not academic when they are too young. Hot housed kids who can read alphabets at 2 don't neccessarily do well in life.

What an interesting thread.

How exactly is intellect/academic inclination inherited?

I'm sure I read somewhere that brains come through the mother (actually it may have been my mother who said this!!). Is that true?

If it is true, stop worrying, OP! (But your dd sounds lovely anyway.)

Lots of good advice here, so I won't repeat what others have said. I think most of us are human and have had thoughts along these lines. I think the more competitive you are by nature the worse it can be. I would be upset if DD didn't like reading as it is something to share together.

Just a small thought but could your extreme anxiety about your dd not being like you (academic) have something to do with your relationship with her father? Maybe if you admired her father you would be more inclined to want her to turn out like him. Also since you didn't maintain a relationship with him perhaps you subconsciously worry that you will be unable to create lasting happy relationship with your DD if she is more like him than yourself? Apologies if this is way off bat!

Also from personal experience all the Oxbridge people in my family bar one suffer from mild depression, whilst the less academic ones are happy carefree souls. I'm sure the two are not mutually exclusive but it does seem to be a pattern in our family.

Intelligence - defined as more specifically analytical/academic intelligence (not the other forms of intelligence discussed on here such as practical intelligence) - is anything from 30-70% heritable And in childhood, the consensus is that it is much less, probably only 50% at the most - which means that the environment is an equal or more of an influence than heritable factors.

BTW heritable does not mean genetic.

Call me fick, but how does heritable differ from genetic?

have only skimmed the thread - but just wanted to say both me and DH have v high IQs - but whereas I read maybe 3 books a week, he reads one maybe a year, and really doesn't enjoy them. We both went to good universities - but did v different subjects. ds1 is a real bright spark and loves reading as much as I do. ds2 (4)likes being read to, but will not write at all whereas ds1 was doing a lot more at the same age. dd - the youngest - hates books and will never sit with them, but I can already see she has other talents emerging - like her father, she is fascinated with construction. There is nothing worse than a parent who does not accept you for who you are. Please let this go before you become one of them - it will drive a huge wedge between you.

Heritability is calculated using population samples, not individual cases.......so heritability means the amount of variance of intelligence that can be accounted for by genetic factors in a population...........

It is taking into account that it is different for all people........sometimes the environment may have more of an effect - i.e. abuse, neglect, lack of familial support.

There is no hard or fast rule for an individual but masses and masses of research shows that intelligence (as defined by the sort of thing measured in an IQ test) is heritable across populations......

IMO Best thing is to assume that the environment has a massive massive enormous effect - especially in childhood.

very interesting thread, that in some ways has struck a chord with me. I was another dead academic oxbridge type and was gifted at languages. DS was severely language delayed at 3, he is now (nearly 5) much improved but still not really "normal" in terms of language and comprehension. He comes over as a bright kid - but isn't really any great shakes at school work - OK at maths, and struggling with reading. And I wish he did have a special talent to compensate him for the language problem. In particular that reading came more naturally to him, as that could really help him overcome problems processing language aurally. I feel I am not as patient as I should be when doing reading books/sight words with him. When over the last few years I have been very patient indeed with language work etc. It's not that I ever set out with any academic ambition - I just wanted him to be happy and have better social skills than I do!

fircone -I really don't think inteliigence comes through the mother - MIL has many talents,but is not what I would all um, accademic. DH and SIL have inherited FILs intelligence.