HOW do you manage to parent "unconditionally" when you have more than one child?

[Fillyjonk]

I am beginning to suspect that AP is all very well until you have several close in age

thoughts?

LOl.

Thats the answer. I'll put them on a bus for the morning. .

Scatty, my children are 5 and 3 and they usually need reminding about taking turns to speak, and sometimes the youngest keeps saying 'he's taking ages' while the eldest speaks (he is very long winded) but they usually can manage it.

Lljkk, tantrums and other forms of meltdowns, I usually let them run their course provided nothing is being broken and no-one is being hurt. Then when the raging is over, I make sure we have a cuddle and I don't ever criticise them for having expressed themselves in that way. Once calm, if I feel it is appropriate, I would ask themselves to express themselves in a more socially acceptable way.

Incessant nagging, we haven't got very much of that at the moment but DS did whine alot when he was 3 and 4. I used to do that 'give them their wishes in fantasy' thing from the 'How to talk so kids will listen' book. It worked really well. Also, I don't think that there is anything wrong with telling your children you aren't going to listen to them anymore if they have asked for something and you have explained why the answer is no a couple of times and then they keep going on and on about it. IIRC there is a bit in the AK book about if they keep asking for a cookie when you are just about to serve up a meal.

I've tried to stick with Alfie Kohn/Jan Hunts the Natural Child/TCS but none talke about 3 children under 3 who all want different things although some plonker on a TCS list said I should get a nanny so each child could get what they wanted.
And all of it is silent on a disabled child where you have to do unpleasant stuff they want like cos they are too young to understand that they will die without that med or op or what have you.
(David Deutsch doesn't catulaly have kids does he?)
But its been bloody impossible with 4 kids, one of whom is so disabled her needs have to come before the other kids and then having HE'ers and TCS'ers explain to me in an earnest fashion why I've been such a bad mother when none of them know fuck all about parenting a disabled child.
Small rant there

flightlieutent 'it's probably cue to run when I crouch' - that is the funniest thing I have read on here EVER. I had never sussed out before that my 3 year old literally sprints out the room when I get down to 'talk' to him

needmorecoffee - I think it is absolutely impossible with 4 children, let alone one that is disabled.

It teaches them nothing about how to deal with the real world in which not everything is so black and white.

Hard a bloody nough with 3.

NMC
I don't think anyone sensible would expect parenting based on reason to be a realistic approach with a disabled child who doesn't understand.

nmc, sorry but am pmsl at the tcs comment about a nanny.

lljk-re tantrums etc, there are 2 things I do, pos very un UP but...

1. I recognise that I cannot deal with being overloaded with whining, screeching etc and I explain to my kids that I am being overloaded. I do it in a nice way, and make it about me not them but...I am honest with them. I do also sometimes ask them to repeat what they have said in a non-whiney voice, simply because, actually, in the world beyomd me , whining is really not a good social skill.

1. tantrums are trickier, I do think they often represent an utter loss of control so am generally sympathetic. Dd1 in particular tantrumed a LOT until quite recently, this I think was largely frustration at inability to express herself, so I worked on trying to understand her (she is very verbal and says unexpectedly complex things, but her ennunciation hadn't really caught up til very recently)

Otherside. You are right of course and giving sensible advice. I have a tendancy to be niave and expect things to work immediately and always (forgetting that it takes time).

TBH I think I've read too many books and (a bit like reading too many self help books) I tend to focus on the things I want to changs rather than just enjoying them and trusting that most development takes place naturally.

NMC you just have to do what you think is right at the time eh? Your DCs will be great mixers though, able to get along with everyone and make allowances for others when they grow up.

Othersideofthechannel - Oh, disabled dd does have a normal intellect but no child understands needles and yucky medicine.

The nanny comment I think was the upgraded version of the usual TCS guff 'don't you have a friend who can take X to thingy while you stay with Y' cos apparently we all have neighbours and friends to supplement us.
Unfortnately, some UP and TCS types filled dd1's head with 'the child is always right' nonesense and she actually believed if everything didn't go her own way then I was a bad mother. More so than your average teen.

Oh sorry, more of an age issue then?

It is horrible having to force things on them isn't it. Fortunately I've only had to do it a couple of times.

But there is a difference between forcing something when it is absolutely necessary to their health/safety than just because you are the parent and think you know better eg "keep your coat on, you can't possibly be hot"

No offence taken at the dissing of the Naomi Aldort Raising our children book. Wondering if my subliminal sleepy response to the quote given in this thread may be the reason I have not got beyond the preface...

and nmc - all i can say is that i have noticed the quality of discussion on the tcs list fall noticably over the last year or so - I think several of the wisest people who used to post are too busy with other things!

ruby . I do that too. In fact I think that the other side of the 'unconditional' is that (almost) anything goes and can be forgiven - on both sides. If mummy has a meltdown and yells, that's OK too because well mummy is only human (she hasn't quite mastered the Superwoman thing yet ). But as you say love is always always unconditional. And apologies are always given (and accepted) on both sides when the worst happens. Because we have a relationship as human beings, not just a set of rules, most things can be accomodated.

Me too Ruby!

ruby, i think your far from wicked. I thought unconditional love was behind the whole thrust of AP and UP.

This is the worst situ we had recently.

DD (7yo) invited friend to ours for playdate, 2 days later, DD started nagging me when would she be invited back. DD wanted me to ask the other parent when would she (DD) be invited back.

I explained to DD that

1. it was rude for me suggest DD be invited back
2. We needed to give them more time to figure out a convenient date
3. DD might never get invited back, that's life.
4. No matter how politely I might ask about DD being invited back, they might take so much offense that they would never let their child come to ours again.

I tried to playdown the fact that DD has almost never been invited back from any playdate she has hosted. I could not conceive that DD would be invited back on this occasion, either.

DD was having NONE of it. Several times she came out of her class demanding that I accost the other parent immediately (keep in mind playground is crowded, other parent is leaving at speed, and I have 3 other children to keep an eye on at such moments) and ask when DD could come. One occasion she went into huge hysterics about the whole matter (DD is good at hysterics).

Now I have learnt that whenever I agree to let DD invite anyone around, it has to be on the condition that DD must not expect or ask (me) to be invited back. But at the time of the mass hysterics in playground, I finally resorted to a threat -- "I will never invite any of your friends around again if you keep this up!"

That threat didn't work either (not at the time, anyway). But you can perhaps see why I find the whole UP thing completely unhelpful at such moments...

I don't know the Alfie Kohn approach, but I definitely try to explain and reason before turning into shrieky mad mother. And yes, OP is right, when you add in one or 2 more children it can go tits up at pretty much any time. One example - ds1 aged about 6 was being gruesome to siblings just before bath, he was v tired and so I sat with him on landing and explained why he was wrong to be horrid, how it made his sister and bro feel etc. I felt like Dr Tanya for about 3 smug minutes, until I discovered that during my absence, dd (4) and ds2 (nearly 2) had filled the bath (already run and waiting for 3 small naked bodies) with all the toys, 2 rolls of loo paper, ds2's wet nappy, everyone's pyjamas, all the toothbrushes and an offcut of carpet that happened to be knocking about. So shrieky mad mummy got her outing after all. There are times when a bark and a snarl might be the correct approach, if only to head off a worse catastrophe. I bark too much though, and loathe myself for it. Need to find middle ground. Anyone seen it anywhere?

I would have done the chat after the bath when everything had settled down. Wouldn't have left a 2yo without an adult present. 6yo could stay if he behaved or else go and wait for me.
But yes, I've had washing powder pictures (art attack has a lot to answer for) done all over the kitchen floor and other things while I've been chatting with one or more of the other children.

wilbur - the parenting books never seem to allow for such eventualities, do they?!

But the "talk" was to make things settle down - to make the unacceptable behaviour cease as it wasn't going to stop on its own. If i'd waited until after bath, he might not have linked his behaviour and the talk together, although he might. It's all trial and error really. The other children were only 10 feet away and had been looking at a book together - it just shows how fast things cans change (not to mention how quickly standards plummet after dc3).

lljkk, your poor DD. Do you know why she doesn't get invited to other houses? It must be a big issue for her, no wonder she is so insistent.

But at the same time, shouldn't a 7yr old be sorting out her own social life? Even if you have to drive your child, I would have thought it would be up to the children to come up with a few suggestions of dates and then the adults to say which one is possible.

Things have changed a lot since I grew up. At this age I used to head off and knock on doors and see who was available to play. If I wasn't home at tea-time, my mum would phone first Z, then A, then G, then P's house until she located me.

Otherside-o-t-c, I don't know why she's not invited back (usually). It's just what has happened. In this case DD did get invited back (miracle!, although I did let DD badger me into dropping a hint about the possibility, so maybe only because of that ).

Yes they can/maybe should sort out social life, but it's not for me (is it?) to run after the other dad and say "DD tells me that J--- has invited her around next Tuesday, is that true?"

We don't have any kids that close for DC to run over to play with, alas, I am thinking that I will start to let DS1 go free-range (10 next year).

I guess my point is, it's all very good trying to reason with them, but often they don't respond to reason at all (and just wait until we all have teenagers, I have heard they truly don't think or act logically ).

LOL wilbur (sorry) that is exactly the sort of thing that happens to me!

lljk - DS also nags me toask to be invited back, we often dont get invited back as his friends parents work or 'don't do playdates (at least I think thats why

Otherside - thats the trouble, things are different now, the rules have changed. At DS age I used to play out with neighbours kids dawn til dusk but there are few children where we live and we never see kids playing outside. Its got much more complicated.

Yes, the way things done has changed. I don't know what the etiquette is as we have only just started doing this with the DCs school friends (rather than the children of parents I get along with) and we are in France but I don't see what the problem is with approaching the other parent.

DS is only five but he asked me 'when can I invite N' so I told him two days of the week. Then N's mum came up to me and told me which day would be more convenient.