HOW do you manage to parent "unconditionally" when you have more than one child?

[Fillyjonk]

I am beginning to suspect that AP is all very well until you have several close in age

thoughts?

I like the AK ideal but have never found it completely possible - but that's probably because I found out about it when I already had 2 children.

Still, you can avoid the rewards/punishments and take your childrens' wishes into consideration when you have more than one child.

I feel that sometimes it is about listening to them but then deciding as the parent that for the good of the rest of the family, one childs wishes have to take second place.

lol at being quiet in turns

we are having to try to train our older ones to do this. They both have an incessant stream of unanswerable questions, and so they have to take turns.

it is quite hellish. they haven't got a clue hw to be quiet really, but esp dd1 who is 3.

i think the problem with not using rewards etc with more than 1 child is that you are just more strssed generally and have less time.

eg if ds has to be somewhere by 10 and I have to take the other two...I DO tweak circumstances to produce, essentially, rewards, like a prefered route or a trip to the cake shop...

You see, othersideofthechannel, this is where I'm getting a bit confused. What you describe is, to me, UP as long as you explain to the child who's wishes are taking second place, why. I would also remind them about times when their choice came first and the other child/ren had to take a back seat.

Filly, all shouting at once, yes it can be hellish at times

Yes, definitely explain why their needs/wishes can't come first.

What are you confused about?

I've only read the AK book and a few MN threads but I'm quite clear about what he meant by UP. Just unable to implement it in practice all the time!

You do have to have a DC who listens to reason!
I was always very good at it as a DC and so was my next brother down, however my youngest brother was often difficult and could close his mind to any reasoning if it interfered with what he wanted to do! He can still be like that as an adult!
Some parents have a harder time, depending on the personality of the DC.
The most interesting thing is seeing the children of the 'experts'-they are not always what you would expect!

The reason I'm unable to implement it all the time isn't really to do with having 2 children. It's because I am only human, and when I am hungry or short on sleep I don't have the patience.

Ah, I understand what you mean, now.(I think).
But then I don't think it's a bad thing for children to realise that parents get tired, hungry, have times that they lack patience. Would "perfect" parents be good for children? I think it's better for them to know that it's okay to be less than perfect.

Abbeya -"Some parents have a harder time, depending on the personality of the DC." You are so right with that one.

i think the thing with AK is that there is meant to be a lot of talking an explaining and consensus building

yet i find i often just want to shout "oh fgs, how should I know why ants are all girls? Do I look like I care ?"

i think the big thing with having 2 + kids is that

1. the world doesn't revolve around any one of them

1. they are, combined, very loud

1. you have less time

Explaining why their wishes/needs don't come first will NOT prevent tantrums, complete meltdowns, hysterics, incessant nagging, etc.
IME. I am not a saint, whinging, hysterical screaming (etc.) get on my nerves badly. Promises of compensatory chocolate buttons ensue...

For years I have moaned at DC, "Why can't you work out a solution yourselves?" I think they often do, but then again, they often resort to hitting and screaming instead... The 9yo boy has recently resorted to annoying his siblings very deliberately "Because I'm bored" he says.

Juule, my 4 DC are aged 8 months-9yrs.

abbey is also very right

ds was SO easy to AP/UP parent because he generally listens

dd1 is, I think, deliberately naughty. This is still a puzzle to me

I do find they are both incredibly easy and mature when they have 1-1 adult attention though.

lljkk - they sound like normal children to me. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. Sometimes we have patience to do things the way we would like to, sometimes we don't. Nothing wrong with bribery now and again imo.

and if they are all shouting at once then it's up to you to prioritise who needs seeing to first. You can still explain things to your 9yo (and maybe the middle 2?) at some point.

Sort of sideways, but this is an interesting thread and I thought of it here so...

UP strikes me, honestly, as a parenting method. A relatively cool one (I really do have reservations about the authoritarian trump card which seems to me to be a big flaw in it both theoretically and practically), but a method just as much as the whole supernanny thing is a method.

And, as people are already saying on this thread, any method is only as useful as the people involved in its implementation allow it to be - and children don't necessarily know that they are supposed to be routine children or supernanny children or UP children or whatever else it is.

I think philosophy is more important. We all have parenting philosophies, lots of them are unconscious or semi-conscious, but we all have a basic philosophy on how family interactions should look, how any power politics should look, whatever. However we are treating our children, whether it is rewards and punishment or UP or whatever, we need, for our own sakes, to be completely comfortable with who we are and how we are around our children. Otherwise it's just guilt and tension and internal inconsistency.

Parenting philosophies I like, which UP seems to me to be a bit of a watered down method based on, include:

Taking Children Seriously (oh yeah, Karl Popper's theory of knowledge applied to family life by people including one of the world's largest brains [David Deutsch - theoretical physicist] - what's not to like?!),

the Jan Hunt Natural Child project,

the Kabatt-Zinn Mindful Parenting approach (although I'm a bit allergic to the yoga-for-10-hours-a-day-and-I'm-a-perfect-Dad father - it's the zen approach I like),

the Radical Unschooling movement,

and I'm hearing very very good things about Naomi Aldort "Raising our children, Raising ourselves", and I like the acknowledgement to Eckhart Tolle in the preface - all stuff about living fully in the present, but I haven't done more than dip into it yet.

Gawd, what a homily.

Agree about the parenting philosopy rather than parenting method.

Unlike UC BY Alfie Kohn I found the "raising our children raisingg ourselves" book unbearably sanctimonious. I agreed with much of the sentiment but found the tone cloying. The introduction has the following paragraph in it and that sets the tone really.

'My dear husband .. provided support and resistance, he challenged me, yet also trusted my ability and wisdom. .. is the man who has the courage to seek my guidance with our children. He would call me saying i cannot handle this peacefully with the children. "Please do your magic". After I would take care of the situation, he would say "Get that book out the world needs it"

I fopund 'playful parenting' much more in tune with my general philosophy and it gave me some really useful guidance on how to play and the importance of parents playing with their children at least some of the time.

having 2 dc close together does means it's never going to happen all the time..but the family dynamics have changed. I just felt different aspects of AP happened naturally and you all accept that things are different with a 2nd dc.

"Explaining why their wishes/needs don't come first will NOT prevent tantrums, complete meltdowns, hysterics, incessant nagging"

Of course not. The way I understand it is that it is about your reaction to this behaviour.

Some parents punish children for this behaviour. What is that going to teach the child?

lc agree re raisng our children etc. it just made me feel crappy.

she does seem to be very much of the "sacrifice your life for your kids" school of parenting. I have seen some comments by her reviewing amazon books which basically hold that feminism is a big conspiracy by the government.

I am not really of the sacrifice model of parenting. I believe in treating kids with as much respect as I can muster, and seeking consensus wherever possible, but ultimately, I AM in charge. I feel that some gurus encourage parents to dress that up in pretty words, which I actually find rather manupulative to children.

AK, otoh, clearly has a sense of humour. This really does matter to me actually, as it shows that he also has an ability to keep things in perspective.

Sorry onwards, am not trying to diss all your links!

Don't do unconditional parenting, or any other kind of parenting. I am just a parent. Of 3 DC. And the way I do it is playing it be ear. I don't make up hard and fast rules, because with 3 children with different needs and personalities, rules are inevitably going to be unsuitable, unweildy and irksome for all of us. I love my DC, enjoy their company, talk to them, listen to them, let them know all the time that they are loved and valued, apart from that we make it up as we go along. It seems to work. (Actually I think that works pretty well when it comes to other people too.) I think it might be called organic parenting, or 'go with the flow' parenting

The thing to remember is that children are children their brains are not completely developed (until 18yrs) so it is unrealistic to expect them not to be self centred, impulsive and find it difficult to wait for things. Obviously we strive for this but its not going to happen until they are adults.

My kids are 5 and 3 and there is no way they are going to take in turns to speak or put each others needs first etc.

Scatty will they really not wait until one has finished speaking if you ask them to? Not even sometimes?
Mine need reminding but they will take turns, otherwise they know that I won't be able to hear what they are saying.

OthersideofChannel, How do you handle tantrums, complete meltdowns, hysterics, incessant nagging?

Stress on the INCESSANT part, by the way.

Hi juule. Yes they do do it sometimes, but most of the time they are so bursting with what they need to say that they can't.

DD(3.5) has well developed speech for her age and is very extrovert (so likes to be centre of attention). DS (5) has slightly poor language skills and takes a long time to find the words he needs, he is less outgoing but likes to understand things and explain his theories in great detail (slowly). DD finds it impossible to wait for him to finish so talks over him (alot). Between them, my ears bleed lol.

I'd like to know too IIjkk!

juule, how old are your DC (do you have any tips?)

yes this is my problem too scatty

they just like to TALK

on buses you can see them eyeing up the passengers for who will be best to chunter to for the duration. (old ladies generally best. also they sometimes dole out sweeties)