How do parent a very tired child? Sorry very long so bear with me...

[Pitchounette]

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'What I am supposed to do when my child can collapse in tears because I simply look at him with a dissaproving look?'

dd does this occasionally..... sometimes you can shout blue murder and she laughs, other times she collapses in tears when i haven't even given out to her.

i think it's an inability to understand others emotions more than anything, she thinks we're cross or angry and is feeling a bit delicate so she sobs.

i comfort if i wasn't actually cross at her and explain that she's not in trouble and noone was giving out, but if she was being told off i tell her to stop being silly and generally ignore the whinging.

some kids are more difficult emotionally than others, dd is also what people descibe as 'sensitive'. she was a nightmare from the moment she was born sleep wise and temperment wise, it has gotton better as she's gotton older and more able to express herself but she still behaves very differantly than most other kids her age and even ds do. she often has trouble understanding what people expect of her and veers from being ridiculously people pleasing to purposefully obstinate and stubborn from one minute to the next.

none of this is a medical issue, it's a temperment and personality issue and we simply have to teach her how it's acceptable to behave, which quirks will be tolerated and which won't.

she was also seen b paeds (for other issues, food related) and it's been repeatedly commmented how pale she is
and like i said she often whinges about being tired and does need mammoth amounts of sleep (which have to forced on her as she is incapable of contolling her own sleep patterns like ds is) so while i can see why you think there ,ight be something wrong, i am inclined to feel you ds is just one of those kids who needs slightly more guidance and control than other kids do.

dd would happily stay inside and mope around saying she's sick and tired 24/7, but she's healthier and happier if i (literally) drag her out and about and have strict rules on behaviour.

Blimey, the poor thing. If you were describing an adult I would've thought depression perhaps? How awful it must be for him to feel this way all the time. Could you perhaps do a reward system where he gets something fun on the weekend if he walks to school twice a week? It might just be the start of breaking the cycle?

Oh no - at least ds2, whilst being tired, still had the energy to throw an almighty wobbly. dd could barely raise a whimper; she was much more of a worry.

That must have been scary Saggar - I can always tell when DS is actually sick - he goes quiet and that freaks me out!

Pitchourette - Hving read this thread it sounds as if you are fed up with having to explain that his is ill - I would be a bit grr if I were you.

Your his Mum and you know when something is wrong with them.

anyway back to OP - if I were in your position, I would expect the same in terms of bad behaviour when he is ill or bad, otherwise he will be very confused with how to behave.

TBH he sounds like me, I have ME and I get very tearful etc, and though I know he is a child and I am not my DH still has to 'deal' with my moods. The very best way for all of us is for him to say basically 'poor you, with a big cuddle, followed by a distraction and then if that doesn't work to say enough now... and expects me to stop crying/panicking/ and though it sounds harsh is works.

But if he is tired don't make he do physical stuffbut let him relax things (just not telly as he will work out v quickly that by 'being tired' he will get the telly - at 14 DS1 would put his hand in his mouth and cry to get his beloved calpol!)

I would also do a thread to request advice a s to what he may have, so that you can so some research yourself and then ask the Paed at the appointment.

Poor lad hope he is better soon

I never said he wasn't ill, and definitely wasn't implying that. There's obviously something wrong and I was just asking a few questions to see what had/hadn't been ruled out.

Yeah I don't think anyone said he wasn't ill, obviously there is something going on with him, but that doesn't change the fact that he needs to behave in a certain manner for the family to be able to function well.

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he may very well be ill and as his mother you're in the best position to judge that.... but you have to be careful of falling into a trap of thinking he's worse than he is, allowing him to be lazy/bold and him therefore acting more tired than he is as he gets away with murder when he claims to be tired. iyswim? kids are smart, if they figure out saying s certain thing gets them a get out of jail free card then they'll very quickly adopt it as their favourite expression... dd's currents one's are 'i feel sick in my throat' and 'i'm tired'... used about 30 times a day!

alot of food issues can cause lethargy and a pale complexion, try eliminating known allergens like wheat/dairy/eggs/nuts and seeing if there's any improvement, but be warned, even if you find the cause of the tiredness it may not have magical effects on his behaviour and motivation as he's been allowed to get away with so much due to his tiredness he won't understand how to behave once he's feeling better.

actually, you might be best starting by eliminating glutan as coeliac symptoms are probably closest to what you describe from what i remember.

Just wrote a really long post about when DS1 (now 6.5) was 3 and we were in a very similar situation, but it wasn't worded very well, so have retyped - hope it makes better sense now.

Feel so sorry for both you and your DS.

My DS1 was referred to paeds for tiredness, repeated illnesses and constantly raised lymph nodes. Fortunately for us, they never found anything and he seemed to grow out of it. I hope it is similar for you and your little boy, ie nothing serious.

Anyway, I digress, he too was an absolute nightmare when he was exhausted, pretty much as you would expect any child to be when they are feeling so bad. I found it really hard to be constantly positive and loving when he was constantly losing his temper and tantrumming.

Eventually, working on the basis that hopefully, he wasn't going to be ill forever, we had to decide to set strict boundaries for his behaviour and stick to them whether he was tired or not. We found using a reward chart/system was a positive way of rewarding the good behaviour. He would get stickers or a marble (we used different methods at different times - he liked filling a jar with marbles best) for not whining or tantrumming and this seemed to help him think about how to ask nicely for things even when he was tired.

Do you think you need to start a thread with a different title along the lines of 'Has anyone got experience of a long term sick child?' Sorry no advice, but I thought you'd get different advice if you do that.

You say the medical side is taken care of, and that is good. But it might be a little hard to advice when we dont know what you know, ie the cause of his tiredness. I guess you deal with it differently depending on the actuall illness/cause.

When ds1 was suffering his tiredness, we did not first know what it was. It was very complex, and even when we knew the cause was iron deficient aenemia, it was still hard to deal with on a day to day basis. But at least we knew, and I did not push him too much because I knew he had to build up his strenght slowly but surely.

The thing is, you dont know how draining it is untill you actually have child who is unwell.

The thing is, in the UK, doctors are very reluctant to do "proper" bloodtests, they only do those little finger prick tests that may tell you the blood percentage. That is not the same as those proper bloodtests where they also find the level of iron in the iron reserves. It IS a palaver on a small child. It was admission to hospital on holiday in Poland that finally gave us the answers. The gps and the paeds in London were totally useless. 2 years, and no answers, a holiday in Poland, and we return full of hope and optimism and a path forward.

Good Luck.

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My dd1 (5.5) had the same symtoms as your child - she was diagnosed with dietary anemia.

Her behaviour was extremely difficult to cope with, and I often felt sorry for her because it was like she couldn't help it - she'd get so distressed.

She doesn't like meat, and is a very picky eater (dd2 by comparison will eat anything and will try and grab a whole chicken off the table ).

The paed said because I was low in iron when she was born, she was probably a little low when she was a baby, and it had just gradually got worse over the years.

Looking back I can szee now that she was showing symptoms at 3-4, but not severe enough for us to notice. We took her to the doctors when she laid down on the floor in ballet becase she was too tired to dance (and she loves ballet). I asked the GP for blood test (stressed that I tended to be anemic), and she sent her the same day.

She's been taking iron for about 8 months - and her levels are now normal. She still has meltdowns and tantrums, but can at least be reasoned with - she is fine at school.

I have no advice on handling behaviour - we found it extremely draining and very, very hard to remain positive. However, having a reason does help us understand why, and we have learnt not to push things when she's tired, better to talk to her the next day about why she shouldn't do whatever it is.

I hope you get a reason for your child's illness

I would second my own idea of starting a thread about what hemight have - a Paed consultant is not a specialist and won't be able to think of everything!

a paediatric consultant may be a specialist - they just specialise in different things according to their experience/interests. you need to find out if there is someone who's got an interest in fatigue...whereabouts do you live pitchounette?

Have also been in somewhat similar situation with dd who has Ehlers Danlos syndrome. Thought for a long time she also had some deficiency/blood problem as she was often very pale and tired- looking; now realised it was simply the effect of living with chronic pain.

Anyway, just wanted to say I do know what it's like, it's incredibly hard to live with somebody who's always feeling tired and miserable. Add to that that age 3 is often a miserable one anyway, and I imagine you've got your work cut out for you.

No advice on the parenting- just to push for any specialist you can think of. And be prepared to keep pushing.

Bloodredtupils warned you of falling into the trap of thinking he is worse than he is. Can I also warn you of falling into the opposite trap and believing you have to prove your parenting credentials by constantly being on guard against manipulation. I believed for years it was my job to push dd and make sure she didn't take advantage- I know now that I did harm and that I made us both unhappy.

(obviously, I shouldn't have let her get away with naughtiness- and I didn't- but I could have been more considerate of genuine fatigue)

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I respect that you dont want to talk too much about his particular circumstances. So in saying what I am about to say, I might be talking aloud out into the dark, but please bear with me.

If there is any chance that he has iron deficiency, there is no harm in giving him vitamin supplements with iron as a stop gap measure. It could also be an idea to monitor what he is eating, if he is not eating enough red meat, or green leafy vegetables, eggs, or other sources of iron, such as baked beans, marmite, red currants, black currants (fresh, not ribena )etc, it might work well to include these, and make sure to not give together with milk as milk hinders the absorbtion of iron to his body, while orange juice (vitamin c) helps the body absorb iron.

I was going back and forth between gp, consultans, for nearly two years. It was incredibly frustrating. I kept saying "he is ill, he isnt eating, he has no energy" they found nothing wrong. They said, he is a typical fuzzy eater, no need to worry. Well, for me it was a need to worry. When you have aenmia, you lose your apetite and your energy. So, it didnt matter how much great food I tried to make him eat, he just wouldnt, he had no apetite. It took a long while to get his iron levels up. But slowly but surely his energy levels have increased so much. He has gone from sitting on the floor looking at a puzzle, or mooching infront of the tv, not wanting to play out and do physical activities, frequent napping, starting out eagerly in the morning, run down the stairs, just to sit down and say "please carry me" to be bouncing about like the duracell rabbit.

He did have something else though, that contributed to his lack of apetite, as he also had a long slow build up to appendicitis. He has also had a tonsillectomy. Due to his low iron levels, his immunesystem was pretty bad, and he was having tonsillitis once a month. He had his tonsils out in February, so it has been 9 months now without tonsillitis (touch wood).

I think, with aenemia, children are prone to other illnesses, be they viral or bacterial and this tap their already low resources even further.

As a mum, you KNOW they are unwell, you just cant prove it. My son was tested for all sorts of disorders, including coelic disease.

Sorry for my long post. What I am trying to advice, and sorry if I overstep the line, is to maybe tailor his meals to include iron rich foods and vitamin and iron supplements "just in case". Unless you are doing this already. Good Luck.

Oh i realy feel for you Pichou, I have a child who can be very much like you describe when he is tired or hungry. My job is quite easy though as there is nothing wrong with him. He just needs to learn that even though you feel horrible it is not socially acceptable to throw things or scream at people. It is one of the difficult things that a pre-schooler has to learn.
Yours is much harder as it is unclear whether he is ready to do this given that he is tired so much of the time. I think if i were in your situation i would put off this lesson until you knew what was wrong and his symptoms started improving, Give him some slack, don't give way on things but give him loads of comfort. When he starts to get better just be a bit stricter

Pitchounette- I am sorry - you are obviously having a really hard time of it. Even without the behaviour issues, having an ill child is worrying, wearing, and horrible.

My DD needs a lot of sleep- always has, despite having severe problems getting to sleep when small. As far as we know, there is no underlying medical cause, that's just the way she is- and to a lesser extent DH and I both do too! On days when she is really tired, she can nap from 2-5pm have dinner, and go to bed at 7, sleep through until 7:30 next day.

I can't comment on the behaviour, as DD is actually extremely composed, and rarely lets herself 'go' enough to tantrum (so we always know when she is really overtired or ill IYSWIM) but I am thinking about energy levels.

How much does he eat? DD some days does not stop eating- she can eat more in a day than I can - she is only 2.8 and I am 27 weeks pg!
On days when she and I are tired, we just have to shovel food in- cannot get enough- it's the only way to keep going. Maybe he needs more input there?
On days when she is really tired, she can nap from 2-5pm have dinner, and go to bed at 7, sleep through until 7:30 next day.

cory really interesting about your DD- my sister has E-D... and it has taken her 25 years to get a diagnosis Her behaviour as a child was quite bad- but she suffered with ill health so much, and tiredness etc, and she still was having tantrums at the age of 22!

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I really feel for you. I am so glad to be out at the other side of the tunnel. I had the same problem, they would not do bloodtests because it was too stressful. Well, in Poland they did not have such a rule and they did the tests. Yes he screamed. But it was worth it. I think it was more distressing for him to be ill, than to have a short term experience of pain as they did the tests.
Can you do it privately?

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