I'm ashamed of my daughter

[FeelNumb]

I have two boys and so when I found out I was having a baby girl I was over joyed. I didn't go for pinks etc but bought all the pretty clothes, did the bedroom all pretty, I was looking foward to having a girl so much. I had all these ideas of having a proper dainty girly girl, princess dresses, long hair etc

Then DD was born. It went ok for the first few weeks but then I started getting comments such as "oh isn't she big?!" and "she's like a little rugby player" and I used to go home and look at her and realise she was nothing like I had imagined my daughter to be like. When she was a toddler she always looked scruffy, her hair never grew and if she wasn't dressed in pink, people thought she was a boy. One time someone looked into the buggy and DD had white trousers on and a yellow coat and she was sat there chewing a teddy and they said "oh, 3 boys...bet you'd like a girl next time?" I ended up feeling really resentful towards her

Then when she started school she was still bigger than all the other kids, she whinged constantly and the other girls didn't like her. At home she would fart and burp really loud and she just acted like a boy ALL the time. Girls clothes didn't even suit her.

Now she's 9 and still nothing like the other girls. On non uniform day the other girls all go in pretty jeans with trendy tops, DD goes in a tracksuit. She walks like a boy, plays football with the boys. One of the girls even said to her "you should have a willy in your knickers because you don't act like a girl".

DH laughs it off and I wish I could to but I'm just so disapointed with her. How awful is that? I want to ask if she will grow out of it but I know that will just make this post seem even worse.

I think that what Mousie said about the practical value of honesty is very true - both here, and in many aspects of our lives in which we know we are not coming up to scratch. If our worst selves can be let out occasionally, it can often allow our best selves more space to grow.

Kew, of course you are also right. Both these things are true at the same time, which is the particular and painful poignancy of these situations.

FWIW I didn't take 'how awful is that?' to refer to the OP's daughter letting her down, but to her own shame at feeling such shame, but I may have got the wrong end of the stick.

troll or not...there are some thought provoking and frank posts that have value in their own right

i hope the op is a troll in some ways...

I'm sorry for you Feelnumb. It is true that girls are under pressure to be feminine, pretty etc in our society, though not as much now as in former generations.

It is true that we should accept the children we are given and not wish they were different, but that is hard when the rest of the world seems to criticise, as in your OP.

I am sure your dd is lovable in many ways, so look for and try to concentrate on those attributes. What's that old saying? Serenity is the acceptance of what you cannot change, changing what you cannot accept, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Both Fabio and mousie have been very brave. I sympathise in that I am certianly more critical , less accepting of one child than another, and it causes me to be v self-conscious with that child.

That in turn puts distance between us, and causes me huge guilt and enormous pain.

FWIW it seems to run in cycles, and the times when I feel it least are certainly the times when I'm not trying to be a "good mother", but allow myself to express my exasperation without always self-analysing or criticizing.

I find that when I feel less guilty, I am less likely to be critical again (it seems to me that guilt often causes resentment which causes criticism - a vicious circle). When I feel less guilty I laugh more, which brings us infinitely closer.

Guilt is the problem I think, and so - while painful to many of you who rightly cannot bear the thought of the child being rejected, or who are angry that the OP is not simply grateful to have a healthy child - I feel I must support her decision to express these negative feelings here.

I can understand your dissapointment in not having a mini me, but children are their own person.
I am tomboyish, dd is barbie pink girly. We have constant arguments about things and I can see them getting worse. However I am so proud that she stands up for what she feels is right even if she doesn't have the same opinion or way of acting as me. She is bright, feisty, funny and will most likely grow out of her obsession with pink and painted nails. If not it is not the end of the world anyway.

I meant to add...

I think you need to examine your fears about her and your feelings off dissapointment in her. It is not her problem to solve.

Why is it so important to have a girly girl? Did you miss out on dressing dolls as a child or were you constantly judged by your parents and are now transfering their feelings onto your daughter.

"FWIW I didn't take 'how awful is that?' to refer to the OP's daughter letting her down, but to her own shame at feeling such shame" - me too OBM, my point was serious - I do think thats its awful to feel the shame but I still think not as awful as being a lifelong disappointment to your mother.

I also think that, whilst Fabio and Mousies posts are brave an honest and they appear to identify with OP, they come from a very different angle to the OP - both appear very conscious of what it is in them that makes them struggle with bonding in the way they would like with their respective children. Their posts were very much about the sadness they felt and what they might be able to do about it. Sadly (on the surface at least) the OP is much more about how her DD has disappointed her by not being what she expected. Very little empathy shown about what her daughter might be feeling or how some of her behaviour might be a device to attract a reaction from her mother.

I'm not actually without sympathy - apart from Mousie and Fabio, I'm probably the person with the most personal experience of bondong issues currently on this thread.

I've never been allowed the illusion that any child of mine might in any way do or be anything that is "mini-me". Different genes, differnt race, different sex. I was grateful to have the opportunity to parent any small child and still I found it hard to bond. I was vocal in the wider adoption community about this (to some peoples disapproval) because I felt that too many adoptive parents pretend to have had no problem bonding when in fact you are often (not always) wracked with guilt that you have this child which you have waited and fought for so long and actually feel very little for - sometimes not just for weeks but months.

I am absolutely not without sympathy if the OP is real.

HOWEVER...

The day a child comes into your life as a living breathing human, your dreams of what this child will bring to you are ended. Your job has become to nuture and grow and cherish and do your absolute best for that child. No-one is the perfect parent, we all have issues we need to deal with some more fundamental than others. Your job is not to be the perfect parent. Your job is to try to be. And if you can't even raise the energy to try, then pretend convincingly enough that your child will never know.

Yes, very true, Kew. But you take my point about honesty, I hope, esp if you managed to do so, very bravely, yourself?

It's also possible that you aren't the person withthe most personal experience of bonding issues, but that others haven't been as brave or honest as you.

For myself, I have found pretending to be counterproductive - it simply adds an additional layer of detachment. I've watched other parents whom I don't think have ever experienced the same (very intermittent) self-consciousness as I, and realized that the difference between them and I is often simply that they vent their anger/exasperation at child - and then, crucially, they MOVE ON, rather than over-analyzing.

I found your montage very, very moving, by the way, and even more so in the light of your post.

"It's also possible that you aren't the person withthe most personal experience of bonding issues, but that others haven't been as brave or honest as you." - that is a fair point.

Unlike you I found pretending very helpful (am obviously a personality which suits the ability to deny the worst about myself!) - not as a permanent coping strategy but a temporary one. Perhaps it was easier for me - I knew I had to approach bonding as a task I needed to perform in order to become a parent, although I was shocked by my stubbornness in genuine bonding at first.

DS is so very differnt from me that if anyone had said I would be matched with a child that was like him beforehand I would have said it was my worst nightmare. And yet having to learn to love him has really opened me up to valuing things in others that I didn't before, it has shaken me out of a complacency that probably would never have been challenged had I not had to deal with our differences.

I do really believe that our bond now is deeper because it is based on the lovely person that he is and my acquired ability to appreciate that about him (even whilst I struggle occasionally with the challenge of raising a child that I don't always instinctively understand how to parent).

This thread is so interesting with so many thoughtful posts and has really made me think - so I think if a troll was involved, that's the best revenge on them possible, that we're all having a meaningful discussion. And calling someone a troll when they aren't, and have been brave enough to share their feelings, must hurt a lot. Unless it's an obvious comedy wind-up, I'd much much rather be had, than jump to a wrong conclusion.

Kew, you talk about learning to love - I'd v much like to hear more about that.

I think for me, at the moments that I find myself v self-conscious with my child, it's a question, not of learning, but of allowing myself to love. I have to constantly remind myself that he is not another 'achievement' to be racked up. FFS.

I do find it hard, at times, to distinguish between being appropriately concerned with good behaviour/manners etc, and being pathologically anxious about the extent to which his behaviour reflects on me. It's probably the quality I most loathe about myself. Particularly since he is lovely, by any normal standard.

But you see what I'm doing here...

I must go tobed, but I second snowleopard wholeheartedly.

I was like this. My mum would always find me playing dens with the boys, i hated wearing skirts and hate baths.
Once i hit 11 and developed boobs, things changed. I also have 2 older sisters.
Im now very girly but happily do boy things too, my hubby thinks its fab
Focus on her goos points please, im sure shes a sweet girl.

I will mull over the process I went through OBM and perhaps post a bit more tomorrow.

I do dislike the idea that someone may be trolling on this kind of subject but on balance I do agree that its a worthy discussion to have regardless of the starting point. I sometimes find it hard to be honest about the fact that I am not anything like as good a parent as I expected to be but I also suspect that having that dragged out of me from time to time is probably healthy!

I wasn't girly girly as a child (and am not now) but given my mum's reactions to her girly granddaughters I suspect that even had I wanted to be it just would not have been allowed. However although it caused me grief and confusion in my teens it has made me a more resilient person as an adult. I am not very appearance conscious, don't worry about dieting, don't wear make up and would not consider changing anything much about myself physically.

As a kid I was always very happy when people thought I was a boy (and this happened well into my teens as I am tall, have short hair and a small bust). I think I was particularly boyish because I really looked up to my big brother (I have two elder sisters also).

I also had a mum who was not good at giving positive validation, which made me resist being friends with her. It's very easy to get into cycles of mutually hurting each other, and although my mother has recently become much better at saying that she loves me and thinks I am doing well there will always be that distance.

Btw I have a girly girl, and wonder how I will manage with her girly tendencies as she gets older (she is 8). I don't like shopping, don't wear make up, and have no experience of/expertise in much of what I imagine she will be interested in. I hope that I find a friend to explore this part of her personality with me.

My dd is also whingy and willful- isn't that how girls this age are? I imagine she is being so overtly "boyish" because she has been rejected by the girls. That must have been a very painful experience for her, but little girls can be very judgmental. I hope that she doesn't find she is rejected by the boys next.

Kew - I absolutely didn;t want to put any pressure on you, how inconsiderate of me. So sorry. Do let's leave it - anything useful has possibly already been aired here - it's been v interesting I think.

no no OM - I didn't mean it that way at all. Am quite happy to share how I feel/felt the reference to torlling (which may or not apply here) was really a side point.

I was just very much a tom boy when I was younger, hated pink, played with the boys etc.

My parents adopted me because I was a girl, so I imagine that deep down my mum may have been disapointed that I wasn't so girlie, but do you know what, she never ever showed it, she made me feel like I was the best girl in the world...

Please do that to your daughter... Start loving her for what she is not for what you want her to be.

I have in turn had a dd that is soo girlie, loves pink I found it hard at first, but I love her so much I have stared to love what she loves ! I now have a pink top!...

Very interesting. I was also adopted and as a non-girly, intensely bookish child, a serious disappointment to my mother (whose reading material consisted entirely of Mills & Boon and Bm Cartland). The adoption led to issues of guilt on both sides - that we had somehow failed each other and shown unforgivable ingratitude.

Kew - it's not too late for you to adopt me is it ? We also looked into adoption but I was quite terrified of reliving those issues in revers. We now have out IVF dd but I'm still terrified of reliving those issues.

DD , of course, is my amom's revenge on me - a totally girly girl.

On the onding/pretending issue. I have mood swings which can interfere with bonding. When things are at a low point, there is nothing else for it but to keep control and fake it as best I can until I come out of it. It's not ideal, but I grew up on the receiving end of behaviour that swung wildly from one extreme to the other - it really is revisiting my worst nightmare. It also though, gives me some understanding of how difficult it must be if for some reason you find yourself unbonded, even hostile, all the time, and also how very rooted ths issue is in the mental state of the parent, rather than the behaviour of the child.

I was also wondering if the OP might not actually be someone coming at the problem from the other side: someone who has suffered rejection herself and now wants to put herself into the position of the Mum who rejected her. We do get these posts on MN, trying to see your problem in reverse. And we have plenty of rejected children on the Stately Homes thread. just a thought...

Poor DD. She sounds fab - she is not a sheep - good for her. If you want a girly girl - get a doll.