so is it completely pointless trying to reason/bargain with my 21/2 yo?????

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

My dd is at the peak (I hope!!!)of terrible two-ness - she is tantruming daily, runs away at any given opportunity - refuses to hold hands (especially when near main roads), screams to be let out of buggy and then refuses to walk with me etc. etc. etc. all very bloody normal I know.

Anyway as latest battle commenced over putting on raincoat - she refuses but won't let me put raincover on - I decided that if she wouldn't wear raincoat we wouldn't go to her playgroup. She knew what I was talking about but would not cooperate - so we have gone home. Was that pointless? I am not sure when I started bargaining with ds (he is now 4) - parental amnesia has set in early But I am sure he was around this age when the time outs and incentives started with varying degrees of success.

I am just having trouble physically as I am heavily pregnant so chasing her around is not an option - and she is so strong. Strong willed as well as tall and well built.

Tips please before I decide that I cannot leave the house again till she is 3!!!

bump please for any passing parenting guru's...

It's not pointless as such but kind of hit and miss. eg BabyDragon (2.7) refused to wee on her potty but when she wanted her watering can filled up and I told her I'd do it if she went on the potty, she immediately sat on it, had a wee and said "There you go. No fill my water can." Other times, bargaining seems to wash over her.

well you can try!

DS usually responds better to "We are putting your coat on so we can go out"

or saying "ok, mummy will go out on her own then which is a shame " - that normally leads to shrieks of excitement and throwing himself at the front door

they can't grasp the "lets do this, so we can do that" at this age as they are so "in the moment"

Don't bargain for the easy option. Start as you mean to go on, with you as the boss! A choice is OK, not going to playgroup unless she wears her raincoat is perfectly acceptable. No more than this. she has this one choice and no more. It will be a battle, keep your cool and stick to your guns.

It's not pointless as such but kind of hit and miss. eg BabyDragon (2.7) refused to wee on her potty but when she wanted her watering can filled up and I told her I'd do it if she went on the potty, she immediately sat on it, had a wee and said "There you go. No fill my water can." Other times, bargaining seems to wash over her.

maybe it has to be immediate and positive. eg "put on youfr coat and we will go to playgroup" rather than "if you don't we won't".

Trouble is being at home with you is just as nice as being at playgroup - and at 21 months she's unlikely to miss things she's NOT doing as she prob "lives in the moment".

Another option would have been to just take a change of clothes in a carrier bag and wheel her there soaking wet and cold in her buggy.

If she's never been wet and cold before she's unlikely to have anything to compare it to and so no reason to avoid it.

And being wet and cold is unlikely to make her ill - just cross!

I think I am just finding it wearing being so bloody bossy all the time - as it is a constant reaffirmation of my control - I am in charge - but I just would like to be more positive. It is so easy to slip into constantly saying 'No', 'come back' 'don't do that' etc etc... I like to distract, engage and reason with my kids and try and gain their enthusiam for doing what I want and I have had some sucess with ds doing so - dd just seems to be stuck on refusing to do whatever I want her to do - whatever I say, grrrrrr.

sorry to be clear she is 2 1/2 years so can remember and look forward to things but does mostly live in the moment.

We were already out as we had just taken ds to school and the toddler group is attached to the school. She was in the buggy and whoops I have just spotted her scribbling on the wall with a crayon - of to engage and enthuse her!

can you do anythign to make your life easier?

e.g. we just started using reins with DS (23 mo and well into toddlerhood already) and they make a LOT of difference re: running away and generally throwing himself into danger.

What do you normally say? Do you ask her to do something (ie, can you put your coat on please), or do you tell her (I'd like you to put your coat on now). The tone of your voice should be different when you make a request or an order. An order is firm and takes no nonsense. You are the boss, you always have to be the boss. Don't reason with her, this is how it is. You are not her friend, you are her mother. Praise the postivie though, thank her for putting on her coat, tell her she did that really well and you are pleased/happy that she did as she was told.

Depends Avena - I tend to be quite firm in tone if my first more pleasant request is ignored - I do aim to praise good behaviour as I know how ds thrives on that so it is ingrained now. Somehow dd when in a particular mindset is completely (it seems) oblivious to any command be it pleasant or firmly put and manhandling her - out of the road or strapping her into the buggy is the only option. This is what I am finding v difficult physically at the moment and it won't be that much easier when new baby is here.

I did use reigns Effie and found them useful but dd has started to refuse to put them on - as she knows they restrict her liberty!

soup dragon I do try immediate bribes positivty to get dd to as I ask - ie. into buggy - 'you sit in buggy and eat this packet of raisins' but I think they only work when she is in an amenable(sp) mood already iykwim.

BabyDragon is the same. No amount of "I'm the boss" is going to work with her unless it coincides with what she fancies doing. She is the same at nursery so it's not just my parenting.

Oh well I am going to be having these battles it seems for the next 6-12 months - I really hope she turns a corner at three as I may have had a nervous breakdown by then.

Can't wait till she is a teenager as I will reminisce about how lovely she was at 2 - and much of the time she is lovely. Just when I actually need to be somewhere at a particular time or when I can't just let her wander off at will - then she is tasmanian devil girl. But why am I the only one chasing a recalcitrant 2 yo round the playground a 3.30pm? There must be a secret I am not in on?????

"why am I the only one chasing a recalcitrant 2 yo round the playground a 3.30pm"

Because you're not at my school although DSs kick out at 3:10 so I'd be gone by 3:30 anyway

Reasoning with a 2 year old is pointless, they use a different set of rules and logic to adults .

Smae as it is madness to give them too many choices and expect a decision or in fact any sense before a week next tuesday.

Clear rewards and consequences, bit like puppy training really.

Arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sorry just had the worst school run so far - dd ran away, refused to hold my hand and hit me repeatedly while I carried her in firemans lift style just to get us home.

This is my second week picking up ds from school so now I feel I am being forever catergorised as the one who can't control her toddler. and they are not wrong.

How the feck am I going to cope in a few weeks when there is a newborn thrown into the mix?[head in hands emoticon]

someone remind me that i will and my dd will survive this.... please.... [this too will pass, this too will pass, this too will pass repeat ad infinitum]