I have been kicked this morning and hit this afternoon

[itati]

I feel like such a wimp

That's very true, Abbeya.

"after he sorted out the tantrums at about 12yrs."

Holy sh*t.

Itati, you say you give your DH a rundown of what the children have done during the day as soon as he gets in and he tries to talk to them because they don't respect you (I'm paraphrasing).

They won't respect you if you defer to him and do the "wait till your father gets home" routine - because the end of that sentence is "because I'm too feeble to deal with you".

Forgive me if I'm talking out of turn and that's not what you meant - but it doesn't do children much good to hear a rundown of all they've done wrong during the day. Far better to praise the bits they got right to your DH - you'd have a nicer evening, I bet.

I suppose a lot of it happens just before Dh gets home so it is quite fresh.

I feel really mean now like I have been
getting my children in to trouble.

I try not to use the wait til your dad gets home as I agree, I should be able to deal with them, but it works atm for the 3 year old. And most of the time I don't know what to do!

Can you say to your children something like
"Shhh now and let's be on our best behaviour for your dad coming home."
And then put whatever has happened behind you and start the evening from then on.

poor you itati. My ds was a real hitter and kicker (mainly me). It wasn't that I was a pushover I don't think but because he felt 'safe' with me so when he had his outbursts, it was me he hit out at (think a lot of it was frustration).

Anyway, along the lines of what Katiedd said (and it's not often I agree with people and I've agreed with Katie twice today!), what really made the difference was me going back to work and getting a full time nanny because the nanny is VERY strict about behaviour and manners (not nasty strict but giving them proper boundaries strict) and it has transformed ds and the way she has done it, she managed to give him a very clear picture (reinforced by me, we agreed together on this) and he is a different child .

I have a dd too and she is very easy going and laid back and doesn't need boundaries (she's my eldest) because she has never kicked against them iyswim but I can now see that he was permanently doing that (even though he's a very sensitive boy...he took it all very personally I think when things went wrong).

I tried that tonight. They were all watching the Famous Five together really nicely, and then someone started, so I said let us try and have a night where daddy comes home and we are all nice and calm.

They are all in bed now.

if he's your eldest, does he get to stay up a little bit later than the others? and have a bit of time with you on his own?

Sometimes. It isn't always for very long though as he is usually more then ready for his bed.

Perhaps tantrum was the wrong word lizinthesticks-it was nothing about getting his own way-more a personality thing, he couldn't take failure. He had to learn to handle the frustration of things not going right. He was fine in the end! I am sure that itait's DS will be fine in the end. Treating him as the eldest and giving him at least 30mins on his own to play a game or something might help.

I just had images of a 12 y/o lad writhing around purple faced on the floor somewhere along the bread aisle in tescos.

Oh tantrums come in many shapes and forms not just the lie on the floor and scream ones of the toddler. They hone their skills as they get older.

They do indeed juuule!!!

Itati - I can offer nothing other than sympathy, but lots of that!

If I had any useful suggestions, I would share them - my DS is either utterly delightful or a kicking, screaming monster. I have probably tried every suggestion on this thread, to little avail!!

I do think that boys tend to be violent, and that there's no point denying it or making them feel bad about having those feelings - what's wrong is taking them out physically on other people. But I have told my DS this so many times ... I do know that jealousy is a really big problem for my DS (he's soooo jealous of DD, who's two years younger - as soon as he's on his own, he's fine).

Do let me know if you find a magical cure!

Oh no, don't embark on a guilt trip

I know it's not pleasant for a dad who's been working all day to come home to a tense situation.
Agree with Hunker. YOU put your foot down when the s*t hits the fan.
But also let DH tell DS that HE expects to find a happy mummy and DC when he comes home.

What you should be sharing at that time of day is nice stories about the day's achievements/laughs about difficulties rather than a rant and a fight.
That's why maybe the positive reinforcement route is the only way forward?
Killing DS softly with words of kindness and support and just ignoring bad behaviour.
Maybe have a consistent approach to bad behaviour? ie you do not speak to him unless he is agreable?

Agree sharing more one on ones with him and making him feel grown up/eldest and just generally creating a sense of responsibility might help too?
Make it a habit of sharing private jokes with him?
I do silly talk / tickling matches with DS when we feel the tension building up. Mine is 4, so maybe not exactly appropriate for your 7 year old, but something along those lines?

Thing is, it's a long drawn process. And every day brings new challenges. I'm sorry I don't have a miracle cure.

"I do think that boys tend to be violent, and that there's no point denying it or making them feel bad about having those feelings"

That really is pigeon-holing boys.
Itati - don't get into the 'oh it's because he's a boy' mindset.
children can have tantrums. Whether that means sulking for some or hitting out for others. It has to be dealt with and they have to be told it's not a good way to behave. They also have to be shown ways to deal with it themselves. It takes time and patience and it's not always easy.

"I do think that boys tend to be violent, and that there's no point denying it or making them feel bad about having those feelings"

Oh please.

Can we lay off this kind of crap - it really, REALLY gets me down. And there's much more of it (explicitly and implicitly) around here than there's any right to be.

Just have to say that I have three boys and one girl. Yes my boys love play fighting with swords and love watching sword fighting movies ie Narnia...you could say they are more interested in violence than my girl...

But it is my GIRL (age 5) who has been hitting me.

I am a soft mummy and the children seem to thrive on that but at the moment I do think my dd is testing the boundaries and it is my challenge to give her some boundaries (somehow)

I think learning to control our tempers is one of the most important aspects of family life.

Boys like playing rough games, physical activity and risk taking (as a very wide generalisation) but I don't think they tend to be violent, they are often more loving than girls. Everyone needs to learn to get along with others and handle feelings of anger and frustration-you can't take the cop out route of 'boys will be boys'. If they get away with kicking and hitting their mothers when they are young, then what are they going to be like as adults-especially after drinking? I agree with juuule, it takes time and patience and isn't always easy but they have to learn to deal with it.

I would never think my son is a "typical boy" in that he likes guns fights, swords, etc but when he got hold of one he enjoyed playing with it. He is sensitve. I think his problem is he hasn't learnt to deal with his feelings when things aren't going his way.

I am going to make notes of all the suggestions as holidays start on Tuesday!

I didn't mean that boys have a right to be violent towards other people, or that violent behaviour can be excused by "boys being boys". Nor do I believe that only boys are capable of hitting and kicking!

However, I do believe that boys are in general more inclined to respond to problems by being physically aggressive than girls are. It's a question of finding ways for them to channel their aggression!

I absolutely agree that Steve Biddulph's "Raising Boys" is an excellent book.

I also think getting some help from a child psychologist would be an idea, either through the school or GP.

I have 2 dss - now 17 and 19, and believe me, you really, really have to get a grip on this now. It will be easier to sort out now than when he is 15 and bigger and stronger than you.

Physical violence is unacceptable beyond toddlerhood. End of.

I know. I am trying.

I agree that physical violence is unacceptable beyond toddlerhood - but I would think that a child psychologist would be taking a sledgehammer to crack the proverbial nut-shell!!

If pushed, pretty much all of us (adults and children alike) would probably be of interest to a psychologist, but on the whole we get along fine without them. Once you've involved school/psychologists, you may find yourself on a road that you really don't want to be on, with a child who is in fact well within the boundaries of "normality".

I would persist with your own strategies first!

FWIW, my son isn't a "typical" boy either - he hates anything to do with football/superheroes/weapons/sport generally, and is obsessed with cathedrals, writing music, reading, and textile mills. But he still struggles to deal with his feelings when things don't go his way. It may partly be genetic (my DH isn't exactly patient), and I just see it as a very long slog, and lots of counting backwards from 20 (10 isn't enough!!)

And, Lizinthesticks: why is it "crap" to say "I do think that boys tend to be violent, and that there's no point denying it or making them feel bad about having those feelings"

Does that mean you would deny that some boys are made that way, and/or that they should be made to feel bad about something that's essential to their biology? Do you really believe that boys and girls are just the same? (Do you read the Guardian?)

Personally, I don't think that physical violence is acceptable at any time (self-defence excepted), toddler or not. Any hitting out needs to be addressed right from the start.
And I don't think violence is an essential part of a young boy's biology. If one of mine was lashing out through temper then, yes, he would be made to feel bad about doing it.
Some boys have violent reactions and so do some girls.