Do you raise your children in London? Are you scared?

[novadandypowder]

With all the news reports of shootings and stabbings, my DH mentioned to me last night that he's having second thoughts about raising our 2 dc's in London. We've both lived here for over 10 years and have a dd 2.7 and ds 15mnths. I would like to think my DH is over-reacting, and I do love this city most of the time, but I must admit, I'm a bit scared now too.

How do you feel about it?

Here in the wilds of rural West Sussex my friends very quiet, gentle, 20 year old DS was punched unconcious on Sat night at a party in the woods. He had a CT scan yesterday as he still has blurred vision. .

That sort of thing scares me as the mother of boys.

In addition, there were far less people in the UK in the 1950s than there are now so the fact that crime is statiscally on par with that period speaks volumes.

I worry about my son, but it's a worry I would have anywhere. I would never leave London. It's our home. We love it here. I find it scary enough living in a suburb of London with it's quiet, leafy (creepy!)streets - much preferred the hustle and bustle of inner London. I think it's because I grew up in a supposedly 'rough' area of London. UI';ve always said, I would feel safer walking down Harlesden High St at midnight than I would a quiet country lane!

TBH i find the 'country is so much better' and 'i can't wait to get out of london' conversations really infuriating. Often it strikes me as being just another 'people like us' type of elitist philosophy.

Well the op did ask for people's opinions so obviously everyone is just being honest.
Why should that infuriate anyone?
Why so defensive?

litchick i am not entirely referring to the OP with my last comment, more the many people who i have met over the years who think i am mad for wanting to stay in london rather than move to the country.

With the specific issue of stabbings in London i can understand a knee jerk reaction to move, but once you scrape away the surface as has been demonstrated by several posters there is no guarantee of safety anywhere.

I think it all boils down to personal perception.
I live in what I perceive as a very peaceful suburban area in Surrey.
We often leave the car unlocked, is has never been stolen. I often leave it locked but with the windows would down. Nothing taken from the back seats, car itself still there in the morning.
We often go up to bed with the back door unlocked, I have gone out for the day with the patio doors wide open, and once I even left the front door ajar. I also often shut the front door behind me with the keys still in the door. Never a problem.
Residents greet eachother in the high street, teachers, shop workers, doctor/dentist receptionist all stop for a chat.
I have not seen any evidence of drugs although I am not naive enough to believe it does not exist.
However, I recently came across a mumsnetter who was so pleased to leave my village, who thought it was a depressing, rough, drugfuelled, unfriendly hellhole.

Just goes to show, we all have different perceptions of what is 'safe'.

Suey2, why should it be an elitist philosophy to not want to live in a city?

We lived in SE London and moved away exactley a year ago for the sake of the kids and for our sanity - we were so worried about what was becoming of the area and both DH and I will say it is the best thing we have ever done.

You can teach your kids not to stand up to people, to stand up to them or whatever but other than keeping them inside I think that I would be scared everytime they went out.

When I was young the girls got told to keep away from strangers etc, not to get in cars and all that because the main fear was being abducted and raped now the mian fear is that your son looks at some sad little man that has no self worth due to the lack of parental care and he knives you!

Still bloody amazed that two of the recent stabbing s of by all accounts bright harmless underage boys were perpetrated at places they should not have been at their age though.

don't get me wrong, fruitstick, i am not saying that all people who want to live in the country are elitist or want to live with 'people like us', but some are. I dislike the undercurrent of not wanting to live in a diverse society that some people imply. This, i believe, i aptly demonstrated by nimbyism with regards building of social housing and institutions in the countryside which appalls it's inhabitants.

There have always been fairly high levels of violent crime, particularly in poor areas. And the current squawkfest about knife crimes seems to lump together gang warfare, isolated random attacks by psychotics and 'domestic' incidents ie attacks on someone's XP or someone who has or is alleged to have had sex with the attacker's partner, or neighbourhood grudges which erupt.
We live in an outer suburb of London, which I picked initially for work reasons when DS was a newborn, but decided to stay in because of fab transport and lots of green space nearby. He will learn street smarts from me as he grows up (more than 20 years travelling on night buses as a lone female, total number of unpleasant incidents about 3 despite endless media hysteria about rapists under every litter bin), and I will find him a good martial arts club when he's a bit bigger just because well-taught martial arts are good for mind as well as body.

I grew up in Northern Ireland during the worst of the Troubles and I now live in a London suburb.

I have a slightly different perspective - yes the stabbings etc are frightening but the situation isn't half as grim as Northern Ireland was in my youth so it doesn't really bother me that much. The chances of anything happening to my dcs is a hell of a lot less than the odds I grew up with.

Have not read all of the thread but I have to agree with posters who feel that London is a great place for their families despite the problems. I think London's amazing and if we were able to I'd move there for a bit.

We live in a big city, Manchester, no stranger to notoriety and "Gunchester" type headlines, and yes it still goes on. But this is where I'm staying to bring dd up despite my Mothers pleas to decamp back to rural Cheshire, I never would. I love the energy, the diversity, the fact that we've just caught the bus back from town (on my own with a 21m old but not a prob because they run every 5 minutes at least) after having gone to the interactive Lauren Child exhibition at Manchester Art Gallery. Next Tue I may well hop on a bus with her and go to the Arty Picnic at the Whitworth. Or we could always pop along to the nature reserve by the river Mersey less than 2 miles away. There's everything here and this summer loads of local festivals too.

What it lacks is ignorance, small mindedness, and small town mentality that I encounter on a regular basis in my parents "idyllic" Cheshire hideaway. Which BTW is rough as a bag of spanners come night fall and has more trouble than I've ever(Scottish football fans excepted) personally encountered up here.

Wow Spokette your facts and figures for this period are amazing! I know really it wasn't any better - for instance I am not sure how well we would have done as a mixed race marriage in 1950s England. No, its probably some kind of nostalgic ideal (Darling Buds anyone?) I am yearning for, which is silly. We love London for a lot of reasons (hence still being here after 17 years) but I still can't imagine bringing up teenagers here - its too stressful.

Yes, another thing worth remembering was that there was plenty of queerbashing and pakibashing a few decades back, but the likes of Daily Mail leader-writers didn't think it was worth getting upset about, because poofs and darkies don't really count. ONe thing about more crime being reported is perhaps that more people who are not straight white men feel that if they report a crime of violence it will be taken seriously.

I live in north london. Quite a nice bit - but my teenaged dss have been attacked and robbed at knife point, and once at dangerous dog (rottveiler)point, so many times I have lost count. So have all their friends. Even a couple of the girls have been attacked in broad daylight.

One lad has been robbed of his phone and wallet on the bus at 4pm 3 times in as many weeks. I hate it, but have no chance to move ATM.

I find the police absolutely hopeless, - well intentioned, - but useless. Once when ds2 was robbed at knife point on a sunday afternoon, they said they didn't even have time to take a statement, therefore the crime would not be recorded.

We (and our parents before us) have always thought London was not the best place to bring up children - quality of life being what it is in any big city; but great for culture and entertainment. Things have definitely deteriorated. That's not to say that these things don't happen elsewhere. We live in a part of Surrey where it is, thankfully, still relatively rare to hear about stabbings; but drug problems seem to be a regular occurrence (although not directly affected ourselves - thank goodness). My 15yr old DS wants to go to London on Saturday (theatre, etc) with a girl (just a friend) - I am nervous about saying yes. Do I let him...?

I'm black, my DH is white and he does not want us to raise our DTS anywhere where there is not a sizable multi-cultural scene because he knows first hand what it is like to live in one of these safe, desirable surburbian areas if your face does not fit. He has witnessed several depressing incidences when with non-white friends.

It's not so much the headline-making crimes that concern me, more the every day ones that I see or hear about where I live.

Mugging, needles, pick-pocketing (the no.29 is notorious for this), vandalism, burglary, the group of youths with their scary looking dogs etc.

I live close t Batters and serenity, and not far at all from some high profile teen stabbings last year .

But I also know almost everyne wh lives in our road, beause the school has a tight ctachment I know most of the kids and they know - or at least recognise - many many adults as other people's parents. There is a strong community feel.

I am in despair over the generation of disaffected, unparented, abandoned, spoilt, undeveloped young people, and the access to guns, money, drugs and the pursiot of all the things they yearn to acquire 'respect', and think they are entitled to - phones, cars, etc etc. It is a potent mix, and I support every move to see things chang.

But I'm not reay to move. DS is only 6 and we may feel v differntly when he is a teen. But if things have not improved in London by then, the sad truth s that the rot may well have spread elsewhere anyway.

Also, the much higher death on the roads and access to drug by young people in rural areas is als a factor. I'm stiking, for now, with the belief that DS will be brought u with a strong sense of self and will keep himself free of gan-related contacts.

Rose tints? Maybe.

I'm also SW London and like it; friendly, little crime (except the hammer nutter mentioned earlier, but that could have been anywhere). Almost everyday you will see a policeman 'on the beat' in our area - not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but I am reassured by it. TBH I am far more worried when I visit friends and family 'back home' in the midlands and go out in the evenings - it has definitely got more rowdy with more trouble there in the last few years. My mum and dad actaully say they feel more at ease when they visit us....But I agree I could change my mind when children get older.

"all the things they yearn to acquire 'respect', and think they are entitled to"

The attitude of being entitled to is right imo, Blu. Dh calls them (and not just teenagers) the MTV generation.

Litchick, you wrote:
Then I realised my babies didn't need theatres and restaurants but space and clean air.

And I found that really interesting, because that is what we though too, when we moved to our suburban idyll.

When we found out that we were moving back to London (because of work) I ask my 10 yr old whether he would miss being able to ride his bike outside the house and play in the creek. He said no, that in London you can always go to the park.

It wasn't the answer I expected. I think sometimes we make all sorts of assumptions about what is the 'best' kind of childhood, based on that 'childhood' in our head, or the one we had, but it isn't the same for everyone.

I wouldn't want to live in London with DCs but not because of the likelihood of one of us being shot or stabbed. It's all the irritating inconvenient things that only really dawn on you once your children reach age 10.

I'm sure all kids are different lulu.
I just feel that for mine at least it was unnatural to be cooped up and breathing all that smog.
Here, we cycle to school, we take the dogs for walks over the surrounding fields etc. We have a very healthy and natural life style.
I'm not saying it's ideal - for a start the DH has to commute in which will be the death of him. - but it is better than living in London.