Having issues with my elderly father WWYD ?

[Sarah39W]

I’d love some advice as I have days where I am adamant I’m doing the right thing and then other days not so sure. I don’t want to have regrets..

Quick backstory, I’m in my 40’s and have two teenagers. My dad is 85 and wasn’t the best dad as a child. Actually that a massive understatement, but for all the negative there were some positives - the negatives being witness to him being abusive to my mum, crying to me aged 8 years old repeatedly about being on his own now they are divorced, telling me it’s my mums fault, agreeing to see me every weekend but often being hours late (I’d have been 8 or 9) or would turn up with some random women and I’d feel incredibly uncomfortable. This all contributed to some significant mental health problems later in my teens.

There were positives, he spent a lot of 1-2-1 time with me, going to parks, sitting and doing crafts, taking me to school, taking me on holiday. But the thing is this was all when it suited him, between relationships and then he’d be gone again. And here’s the crux of our relationship and the issues I’m now facing.

Every single time we have done something it’s been on his terms, even as a child what do you want to do, then talking me into what he wants to do, as an adult, only coming to see me when there’s a new grand child, showing up as the proud grandad but then not seeing him for a year after.

He would call and say come and see me and I’d trudge across the country with a baby, toddler and dog and visit him, every single time half term, school holiday but as I’d leave he’d end what was lovely day with something negative- I feel v upset you haven’t stayed for longer, why wouldn’t you stay over, why haven’t you done this before now it’s very upsetting ? It’s exhausting and emotionally manipulative, he’d also cry.

Now hes elderly he’s saying I never see him, I do but I work full time and have two teenagers I’m ferrying around also. I drive to see him (1.5 hrs away) but when I ask him to see me and to come here for the day or suggest I pick him up from the train station to share the journey, he’ll say no that day time doesn’t work. Despite being elderly he travels a lot, holidays a lot and has two homes (ex wife left him an apartment in a city not too far) he trains across the country between the two as he’s very active, but again on his terms.

I am so fed up of this constant cycle. This week I’ve said I’ll pick you up from his apartment he is visiting, which is 30 mins away from me. He will only see me on the day that suits, I can’t do that day as I’m at work and he won’t come any other day.. and so the cycle continues.. him being in his 80s now makes me feel guilty but it’s incredibly difficult to deal with .

I’d love any feedback on how to deal with this.

Stand your ground and call him out on his manipulation

Make the offer of why works for you and his choice is to take it or leave it. So not feel guilty for his deliberate choices.

Its no surprise he has a lot of failed relationships!

I have done got no no where and disagrees with how I see things

Ive tried. I do this quite often and will say the offers there. He’ll say I don’t want to go out that day or I don’t want to do that.

Nothing more is said until say a month later where he’ll want to tell me how upset he is that I make no effort and he doesn’t see me. Then the cycle continues.

I had similar with my mum. I felt pity for her, which I suspect you do for your dad - note that 'pity' is not the same as 'love'. I also felt a sense of duty towards her in that I advocated for her with agencies. For the rest, don't bother yourself.

Sounds like he's always been selfish and manipulative. Do your best to ignore all that. Don't try and reason with him - that way lies madness. You're already doing more than many would do in your position. Step back once you've done your duty by him and try and rest easy.

Then just drop the rope, you are continuing to engage with his bullying. Don’t make a scene just stop contacting him and leave the ball in his court.

When he contacts you and starts being unkind or unpleasant tell you are hanging up as he isn’t being kind and then do it.

He’s having tantrums and they’ve always worked.

Can't you offer to see him on a day that suits you, then when he says no and tries to guilt trip you, just remind him that you are in your 40's and have a busy life just like he did in his 40's. Remind him he was late for meet ups, he had other people that took priority, he had work etc and you didn't get to see him because life got in the way? Just lay it out as facts - life is busy for you as it was for him at your age.

All you can do is offer a day when you are available. If he can't/doesnt want to fit in with your work/family commitments there is nothing you can do. When he starts complaining, just remind him thatte offer was there. It was his choice not to take the offer up. I'm afraid you just need to toughen up in your dealings with him

Let it wash right over you.

To be honest, if he was like this with you as a child then he's not going to change, is he? This is how he has lived his entire adult life - prioritising his own wishes and feelings over everyone else. And always being the victim.

Do you actually want as much contact with him? I'd be tempted to bluntly tell him 'Dad - you were shit when I was a kid. Everything was done to your convenience and you put yourself and your own feelings over mine every time. Decent parents don't actually do that. You are incredibly self centred and self absorbed. That's fine - that's who you are. But I'm putting my kids and work and family first, because that is who I am. You are quite a long way down my priorities list, so whilst I'm happy enough to visit occasionally or see you it will have to fit in with my life - not yours. If that's not enough for you then tough. I usually offer alternatives, but you want eveything on your own terms, and that just isn't going to happen'.

Might actually be a good way to draw your boundaries firmly in the sand.

He is an abusive narcissist and I personally would back right off from him and not put my kids in that situation of being abused and thinking that this behavior is acceptable

Sounds a bit my late father.

He was everybody's mate - but he didn't have any mates.

It was like you were an extension of him, a sort of box room in which to junk all his stuff. He'd go to you for help and once he'd got it, turn curt as he didn't need you any more.

The solution? Not sure. He won't cut the ties, quite. Guile and vagueness on your part is your friend perhaps. Thing is, you are in a behavioural pattern so that is hard to break. Anyone on this board can say, well, junk him etc and call him out and so on and they're not wrong (though is he the sort to disinherit you, do you need the money?) But the thing is, someone at the rough end of a manipulative relationship is caught in a trap. It's not that easy.

Thank you for your reply

I can not tell you how many times it’s come out a head and I’ve said these exact things.

Whatever I’ve done is never good enough so after a period of years where i did bend over backwards it was always met with a negative comment as I was leaving. After usually very stressful journey and long day meeting/doing what he wanted I have many times said if this isn’t good enough this is all i can give you.

I can’t stay longer as I have two small children’s blah blah blah, I can’t visit more often as I live 200 miles away and have a husband who works away a lot, I have work and young babies blah blah blah, he says I understand but then the cycle continues.

I have had many frank conversations many a time where I’ve said you doing this causes me such stress it puts me off coming to see you, it spoils a nice time but then here we go again. My husband is livid about it. He suggested about 6 months ago we all go out for lunch, they met us at a lovely restaurant, we had a lovely time, were there all afternoon my husband paid and then I got a call a week later saying it’s a shame the grand children’s didn’t sit next to me and spend more time talking to me and said like it was an issue. We were there 3 hours !! Honestly I really give up. No i don’t actually want to see him it’s more of a duty and i don’t want to hurt his feelings. Sorry for the ramble.

I think this is the only way. Yes vagueness and for me to do the minimum on my terms.

He doesn’t have any money to leave me

Any property he lives is from his ex wife that will go to her family as it was from her ex husband, complicated.

I don’t want anything from him at all. I’ve never had a penny from him him whole life, didn’t even pay child support as he met a wealthy lady and stoped working but pled poverty so not to pay. Lovely.

My lovely mum did everything, she has a lot to say about all this 🫩

His parting shot of negativity seems to be, 'You've helped me out, but now I need to re-assert myself and be on top of the situation - and I'll do that by criticising'.
Cheerfulness? Could that be a tactic for you? 'Hold on Dad, we're half way through this meeting! You'll have to think up something negative to mention at the end of it! What will it be, I wonder...?'
When he complains, reply in agreement: 'I know! And the dessert was cold, too! Plus I could swear some of that cutlery was messy!'
But do you know, you've probably done all this stuff.

I think Sly Stallone had issues with his dad, it will be in his new book he's promoting. And I'm currently reading a book called Adults by Emma Jane Unsworth where the narrator has an issue with a nightmare mum.

But outside advice tends to be, hey, ditch this person, when it's like telling a cocaine or drink addict to, hey, just stop doing it. The thing will have wormed its way into your backstory and identity. By ditching your dad maybe it will feel like a bereavement, though you could call it 'conscious uncoupling' or something. Maybe see him like some kind of lover who keeps you on tenterhooks and negs you out and so on...? Thing is, you can dump a lover.
How about an ex you have to see from time to time for child maintainance or a business matter, like Paul and Yoko.
If it's a clean break, be mindful not to transfer this crap on to your husband, however....

I could never cut ties that would be cruel he’s my father however I will protect my own peace by asserting some vagueness as someone has suggested.

Thank you for your reply. A very difficult situation that unfortunately has no positive outcome but I’m hoping no negative one either. I will do what i can and that’s it. This has been very useful in confirming how manipulative he is, I was doubting my own feelings so it’s been very helpful today.

If he couldn't easily travel/was saying no to certain days due to medical appointments, I'd say try to be flexible, but if he's able to do whatever he wants and is prioritising that over a working parent, er no. Explain you work/have chlidcare, and that emergencies aside, that takes priority over what he's choosing to do.

Exactly 🫩