Toddler struggling every evening after starting nursery, normal adjustment or concern?

[WaitingforthatRain26]

My DS, 2 years and 2 months, started nursery 4 weeks ago. Full time, 8am - 5pm. He seems to have settled well. It's a small nursery, very small classes, good teacher-kids ratio. He asks to go to school and goes in happily.

But his behaviour every evening is awful. So much crying and whingeing over nothing and everything. It's really getting us down. We can't even put him to bed early as he's doing super long naps at nursery (2.5 hours) so bedtime is close to 9pm now (wakes at 7am). He seems tired but not tired enough to sleep.

If we force an earlier bedtime and actually get him to fall.asleep he will wake up at 1am and stay awake until 4am. So lack of sleep is not the problem.

I don't mind the late bedtime but it's the crying and the tantrums. Every evening is such hard, hard work. He barely ever had any tantrums before he went to nursery. His language is excellent so that's not the issue either.

I guess he's just overstimulated and tired from.the day but what is the solution? Is this just our life for the foreseeable future?

I've just started a new job, taking time off is not an option.

He also barely eats anything at nursery and comes home and makes up for it. Between 5pm and 7pm he will eat a banana, a sandwich AND a massive cooked dinner like bolognese or curry. Even so, he has lost weight! Maybe his stomach is off?

DS has just changed nursery’s and gone up from 2 days to 4 days a week and this sounds familiar. Loves nursery but wild at home and some days quite emotional. Have you thought about asking nursery to cap his nap? We ask nursery to wake him if he goes over 2 hours ( he almost never does) and not let him sleep past 2.30pm so he will have enough sleep pressure for his 8pm bedtime. Have the nursery/DS given any indication why he’s not eating at nursery?

My DD was the same tbh evenings were murder! She was stilk having milk at that age so i had to frantically make a milk for her to have when we got home.
how does his routine at nursery compare to the routine at home? Would he have a 2.5 hour nap with you? Do you get any feedback about what he is like at nursery re what he eats etc?

What was he doing before?

Yes, it's completely normal. It's a long day if he hasn't been in full time nursery before. You just have to be nice to him and understand that it's a lot to ask of anyone never mind a toddler. The winging will pass when he feels more settled and less tired.

He sounds exhausted, that’s a very long day for a toddler and a very new routine to get used to. But sounds totally normal to me. They do get used to it and less tired as they get older, so it does get better, eventually. I would have very relaxed evenings and lots of snuggles.
Can you talk to the nursery about him not eating properly, if you can get him to eat more there, he might be calmer when he gets home? Can you send in snacks that he will eat?

@Poppingby what was he doing before? He was happy. Just...happy. had some tantrums but they were quicker. This is ALL evening. Naps were 1 - 1.5 hours and they were earlier in the day. But he also woke a lot earlier so the time itself is not the tragedy.

It's the crying, tantrums, whingeing. We are very patient, we know he's having a hard time. But it's 1) horrible to see my child like this and 2) taking a toll on me mentally.

They only serve lunch after 12, so naps start around 1. So I don't think it's feasible to stop naps at 2pm.

Food wise I think he just doesn't like it. He has a dairy and soy allergy so they have to modify the food for him and I think it's quite bland. He gets much nicer food at home.

They keep giving him rice crackers all day long which I am very unhappy about. Zero nutrition or calories in those things, while other kids are getting yogurts etc.

Definitely ask them to wake him at 2 or 2.30 so he gets a better night time sleep.
But he'll also just be overwhelmed and tired at the moment, he's dealing with a lot!

8-5.30 5 days a week is a huge change if he was home full time with you before. Can you or DH adjust work hours/days to ease him in? Finish earlier/compress hours?

If he’s not eating much he must be so hungry, I’d lower expectations of your evenings if you can, some time together to just play & connect.

Yes, play and connect is all we do. We usually manage to collect him around 4.45, earlier is not possible.

I'm not expecting to relax, but it's painful and horrible. I give him.all the attention and he kicks off over everything.

We give him a banana and sandwich in the pram on the way back now. He loves it but has not changed his behaviour.

Mine were like this. We used to just cuddle on the sofa and watch peppa pig together. They couldn’t do anything else.
took about 6 weeks for them to get used to it
I agree with cutting that nap. 9 is too late for bed.

He sleeps until 7am - 7.15 though. He sleeps 10.5 hours per night since he was 10 months old. Bringing his bedtime to 7.30pm would just mean a 5.30 am wake up!

I don't have a problem with the 9pm bedtime. Just the behaviour until then.

Even if you cap the nap? Because sounds like he needs 12,5 hours. So if he’s doing 1 hr at school and you do 7.30/8pm bed would you not have a 6am wake up?

A 6am wake up is very problematic. Nursery doesn't open until 8am and that's for breakfast. So I'd have to entertain a toddler, give him breakfast, have zero chance to get myself ready for work as he will NOT leave my side even for a second, he'll scream to go out to the park from 7am and then he won't eat breakfast at nursery as he ate at home, and then he's hungry at 11am but lunch is 12/12.30 there. This is what it was like in the first week or two. The morning was just impossible.

The late timing in itsef is fine.

At the moment breakfast is the only meal that he DOES eat at nursery.

I guess you just ditch the expectations, whack the screens and snacks out and wait for him to adjust then.
doesn’t sound like he was the easiest toddler from the get go if that’s what your mornings were like though? I used to be able to give mine a jigsaw or foam letters and shower or toast and CBeebies and shower!

We don't do screens. Max 20 minutes after nursery only.

But no, even if I did stick Bluey on or whatever, he would not let me have a shower lol.

I thought he was a very easy toddler, just very attached to me. It never felt like a problem, really.

And this is why your life is so difficult. 😊

No I meant what was he doing before all day. Like, was he with you all day? At a childminder? Something else?

If he was with you all day and now goes to nursery 8-5 that is a huge change to get used to and it would be weirder if he wasn't reacting to it. You're talking as if he's broken but he's just a human coping with change. Even lots of grown ups struggle with that. He is probably bone tired and you are a safe place to act that out. You just have to wait for things to get better.

He was with me and his grandparents all day, yes. I don't think he's broken, I'm just upset seeing him upset! I'm not sure what I can do to help (within the confines of having to work full time unfortunately). I am dedicated to him entirely the moment I step in the house.

It's just not normal for him so I'm wondering if it's just how all toddlers are after nursery?

When my eldest was this age I also had a 6 month old. I went back to work when she was 2yrs 10 months and youngest was 11 months. I made dinner in the morning so that was quick to heat up and we had a routine of getting in, having tea soon after arriving home and then watching CBeebies cuddled under a blanket (I was grateful of a sit down as was shattered at this point!) They’d then have a nice bath and play in the bath before snuggled with stories.

How long is he waiting for his meal once he’s home? Could you limit the snack but give him his main meal more quickly? He’s had a massive change so it might take him a while. He sounds shattered and hungry.

I'd talk to nursery about food, and see whether working together you can improve his meals / snacks while he is there. My DS was always happiest in a bath in the evening when tired. Perhaps try a longer bathtime, you never know, it might help. But it is a lot of change so he may take a while to settle down. While this may be far too hard core for the short term, I didn't give dinner at home to my DCs when they did full nursery days , they had a bowl of plain yogurt only. Filling him up in the evening does mean he'll be less willing to try nursery food next day. But from that pov, my DC started as babies, so they got used to the new routine much earlier.

Thats a huge change for him, and a massive challenge. The mental work he will be doing during those long hours every day will ne absolutely taking their toll on his resources.
I think you need to hold your firm boundaries around behavior in the home but give him the grace of understanding why his behavior has gone through such a change.
I think it will improve within a few months to a year.

I would try taking him to the park to run off some steam on the way back from nursery. I wonder whether he's mentally tired but physically needs a bit more activity. Even if he's getting outdoor play at nursery, exercise is still a good way to help regulate (for adults too!) and it might help tire him out for an earlier bedtime.

This does sound normal with such a big transition yes. Full time nursery at 2 after mostly just being with you is a big change to his life. He’ll be getting a lot more stimulation all day now too as well as interacting with different carers, lots of kids, learning routines, learning people etc.

And neither of mine have ever needed 12 hours night sleep no matter what naps they’ve had, every child is different. I would ask them to cap is nap though, see if that helps.