Can a former bully really change when starting secondary school?

[User3627282646322244]

Do you ever fully believe a child who’s previously been awful and a bully to change?

dd 11 is starting secondary this week. Up until year 3-4 into year 5 ish is she had a friend who ended up becoming quite nasty, sly, vindictive, toxic. There was red flags when younger but it just got worse and worse with age. Some may say that’s strong words to use about a child but honestly this child was awful. My daughter ended up with really low self esteem, poor mental health, having intervention at school as she was in total shutdown because of this girl. I won’t go into full details but it was a rough time but the girl was clever enough to act all angelic around teachers and adults. Her mum was the kind of mum who believed her child can do no wrong. It was physical and emotional bullying but she was sly.

anyway, the girl ended up moving to another local school for year 6 - like I said her mum could see no wrong - funnily enough the mum is very similar in her personality to the daughter.

now they are in the same secondary school. I’ve managed to speak to the school and make sure they are apart for form and teaching groups - luckily the school were very accommodating about this and I got in early how this needed to be done.

however, they will still see each other, at the bus stop, on the bus, around the school and this girl who doesn’t appear to have any other friends, is latching on to my daughter again, it’s a weird dynamic, it’s like she wants to be friends with my daughter but is also awful at the same time.

I don’t trust the girl at all, dd has been in a much better place mentally.

do you think a child could change?

I am worried she will act nice to start with then turn all nasty?

dd is well liked by all her peers and has lots of friends - she doesn’t get it from me but previously with his ex friend, she wasn’t allowed to play with anyone else.

do I discourage any contact? Or let them do their thing and hope for the best? I don’t want to control dds friendships because my mother used to do that with me and I hated it but I really don’t trust this girl.

for context dd usually goes stiff when she sees this girl. She freezes in fear. But she’s seen her in passing a couple times in the holiday!

weirdly the girl, knocked on the door to apologise for her past behaviour a while ago which seems sweet but dd did not say a word - I did all the talking - but then this girl was telling everyone she was besties with my dd again, telling any friends of DDs to back off - it’s a small village and that kind of place people talk. Kids play out etc.

I am just confused and anxious myself.

I don’t know about changing, but in my experience, they all scatter and go their separate ways in secondary school. The ones who were bullies got a real taste of their own medicine faced with being the tiniest fish in a big sea of 13, 14, 15 year olds! But secondary school is huge! My dc barely see their friends from primary school, even the ones from our village, let alone the kids that nobody likes. The first few weeks may be a bit rough, but I really wouldn’t expect the same dynamic to carry over unless they truly can’t escape each other, like you are making them car share together or you rely on the other parent for childcare or something.

I would have a chat with your DD, maybe take her out for a smoothie or something nice and ask her how she feels about this girl. I once she starts opening up I’d make sure she knows that she can tell this girl that she doesn’t want to chat/play/hang around at the moment and she’ll see her around.

In my experience bullies do not change and she’s latching onto your DD because nobody else will tolerate her.

It seems like history is already repeating itself if she’s warning your poor DD’s friends off already.

I don’t know but I do think a small amount of leeway should be given for a young child who is learning as well how to navigate the world. The fact there was an apology is significant I think.

For what it is worth, my older ds has autism and for a while was the target of bullies. It was like whack a mole trying to deal with them. In year 9 he was bullied by one child and the teachers sat on it hard. Then in year 10 the child apologised to DS which I thought was big of him. Now they have just started A levels and are very friendly with each other. Ds doesn’t really have friends but he says about this kid; ‘yeah, he’s great’

so I’d love to think that many bullies grow out of it. Many don’t too.

No. Tell her to clear off. Bullies don't change. She's just sucking up because she now has no friends and is the little fish in the big pond.

I think a ten year old is capable of change. I think secondary school bullies are abit different and that’s probably an indication of their overall personality but primary school children aren’t so set and can change.

Maybe but she’s already telling the OP’s DD’s friends to stay away. She’s not changed at all.

She may have changed but why risk it?

Keep your child away from her. Make sure any adults know to keep her away.

Yes, I don’t believe people change and I would stay vigilant. Little shite.

My daughter is the kind of bully you have described. She is not like me I've never been a bully. She has just moved up to secondary school. She's had all kinds of counselling and sees CAMHS. She lives with her dad now as she bullies me and her younger brother. School, social workers, counsellors also get the angelic version of her. She alienated all her friends at school and their parents stopped talking to me at all. This is very painful but I can understand why. It's no help I know but the behaviour you describe is absolutely my daughter. I think you've done the right thing trying to distance your child. Like a pp said, this girl will be a small fish in a big pond at secondary school. I hope my daughter's behaviour improves but at the moment I feel heartbroken and don't see how it will change as her reality and outlook is so disturbed. Just a perspective from the other side. Not looking for sympathy just that bullies don't always come from awful homes there can be lots of other factors. I love my daughter like I love all my children but Im realistic and don't see 'no wrong' in them. But I have been in denial about my daughter's behaviour at times because I don't want to believe how horrible she can be.

Of course they can… they’re 11. People change as small children through adolescence and into adulthood.

How has your DD been today @User3627282646322244?

Is this girl keeping away now or is she still warning your DD’s friends off and trying to isolate her?