When does separation become the better option for children?

[ConcernedDad26]

I want to ask everyone's opinion as to when it is better for parents to split?

I am a dad of 2 kids, a boy of 7 and a girl just turned 11.

Their mother is Italian and constantly says how she no longer wants to live in the UK and wishes she had a time machine so she could jump to the time when the kids are 18 and she can return to Italy. In truth she is unhappy here but ultimately she will be no happier in Italy, even her cousin has told her she doesn't know how to be happy. I noticed a change in her from the moment the first child was born, and while she denies her anger and/or unhappiness are related to the kids in any way, I don't believe it.

The atmosphere in the house is sometimes pretty toxic because she is often angry and aggressive, I assume because she is unhappy, she is frequently rude, mean and unpleasant to me, sometimes to the kids also.

I have been putting up with it partly because I know the kids would prefer to live with mummy and daddy, particularly my daughter who I worry would be devastated if we separated, and certainly I think it is better to have 2 parents than 1.

But I also worry that if we separated and we suddenly had joint custody (I assume), whether the kids would pick up her unhappiness, anger and aggression if I wasn't there. But maybe my being here doesn't really change anything anyway, at least in that department? My daughter is sometimes mean to her brother, I assume to try and get in her mother's good books, and I worry that she will end up unable to be happy (like her mother) and worse will think aggressive behaviour is acceptable.

And if I'm honest there is a third reason for putting up with it. I've suspected for years that one day she might walk out and leave us. And maybe she will. Or maybe she won't, obviously I don't know.

So my question is this.

At what point is separation the better option for the kids?

At what point do the kids start to notice and normalise a bad relationship, to the point that it will affect their own relationships in the future?

From one dad to another, good luck buddy! I think it is just so difficult to know and predict the future.
Three of my good mates have separated and none of them have moved on particularly successfully to new relationships unfortunately. My mate im closest too has, to my mind, been more distracted by his relationships than he should have been and neglected his daughter to a degree. He is still an amazing dad and she's an amazing girl/woman. They separated when she was 11 and she's now 18 (just got two A* and one A at A Level). Point being, once separated the kids might still get caught. I guess my advice is don't rush to a decision as big as this, think as many angles as possible. Could you do more to help your partner? Do you still respect her?

Btw I didn't mean to suggest you are at fault at all. You sound like a good dude. It sounds like she is struggling with depression or mental health in some way. Could she get counselling? Could you give her some time off to go to Italy on her own (might remind her of its faults...).

FWIW I'm not interested in another relationship (under any circumstances!), just what is best for the kids.
Agreed with your suggestion about therapy, she has even said she will do it but then she never does ...

Have you thought, just maybe, that your wife is unhappy in the relationship? It’s incredibly weird to try and pin it on the children.

Have you had kids yourself? You are "incredibly weird" to not understand that they place an enormous strain on everything including relationships...

But the op isn’t considering that he may be the reason his wife is unhappy. He’s not even spoken to her about it. Just hoping she’ll leave and fuck her kids up for good weirdly.

Didn’t realise this was the same dad that said the following. Forgive me if I don’t value your words of wisdom.

‘My mate im closest too has, to my mind, been more distracted by his relationships than he should have been and neglected his daughter to a degree. He is still an amazing dad’

Yup. He has no consideration for what it's like to be trapped in a country that is not your own, especially one that has got more and more hostile to foreigners of every kind.
Who wouldn't be unhappy in a country that hates you and a partner that doesn't like you much more?

In this particular circumstance your children would still have to live with an unhappy, negative and angry mum at least part time. They would go through all the loss and stress of separation and moving between different homes and also still be stuck in the misery. I'd be having honest conversations with your wife about how you're worried she's struggling and how you want to work together to make a happy childhood for the kids. asking her to get therapy or speak to a doctor, supporting her to make positive changes and trying to make her life more fulfilling any way you possibly can to try to pull your family together for the sake of the kids.