Nearly 4 year old behaviour advice

[Toystory123]

I have a DS who is nearly 4. I am really struggling on how best to handle his tantrums. They are not super frequent but are very difficult to handle.
He has had 2 today when we have been leaving places. The first one was due to him seeing a table tennis game as we were walking to the car. He asked to play and I said ‘next time, time to find the car’. We were with others and ready to leave. He then screamed, cried and kept trying to run back. I carried him and intermittently put him down and asked if he was ready to walk but he kept trying to run back and carried on screaming/crying. In hindsight, I could have let him play but I said no and didn’t want to give in to the initial push back as he already had kicked up a few fusses on our walk when we went to go into a direction he didn’t want and I feel like he can’t control everything.
the second one was visiting a neighbours house who had 2 younger children over. We stayed a little while but then I started doing a countdown for us to head back and have tea. When he didn’t listen when the countdown finished, I counted down from 5 as he ran around the garden and tried to hide. He then ran inside and upstairs and was refusing to come down so again carried him, he was red in the face screaming and crying. Did try and placate and say we’d be back soon, he could watch some tv whilst I made dinner etc etc. Anyway a battle getting his socks and shoes on, had to leave mine off and carry him back home as he was just trying to run back. Once we were back home he was just red in the face, crying saying he wanted to go back. I explained all the children were going home and it was time for tea but he was just really upset and pulled the stair gate off (have one downstairs and he has never done this before).
I know the reasoning behind both tantrums today were because he didn’t want things to finish but I just don’t know what to do - I’m prompting, doing countdowns, now and nexts. Is there anything that worked for you? Like I said it’s not all the time and 90% of the time he’ll react well to all of the above

No point reasoning in the moment. It's like telling an angry person to calm down because it's not a big deal.
Always hold the boundary. Always give a countdown to leaving. You might be able to head off some of the emotion by agreeing with him but still holding the boundary - "I know, that table tennis looks amazing! I wish we had time to stay. I think I could hit the ball, do you think you could? Shall we find out next time?". But ultimately, if that doesn't work then he needs to go through the emotions and you just scoop him up and leave. Let him be mad, that's fine, but intervene if he gets physical as that's not ok. Stay strong!

Thanks, that’s definitely something I could do more in the future, engage more in conversation around what he wants rather than more of a definitive no.
he was a lot more physical when he was younger and I can see the restraint in the moment as he looks like he’d like to give me a good whack 😂 he’ll sometimes mime hitting me so may be we are making some progress haha

‘next time, time to find the car’ This is quite wordy for a preschooler that is focused on realllyyy wanting to do something. If he registers it all it also sounds like it’s open for negotiation because if next time why not now. You might have more success with just a simple NO. I know it sounds harsh but it’s clear, they understand it and it’s obvious it isn’t going to happen. Then by all means explain later why you couldn’t do it like you needed to get home for lunch or whatever and that you’ll do it next time, but in the moment keep it simple and clear.

As for the countdowns how are you doing them? DD was a shocker at aged 3-4 for leaving anywhere but where we were going wrong was saying ‘5 minutes, 2 minutes’ etc. because actually she couldn’t tell the time yet so it was mostly meaningless and also we were being inconsistent, not actually timing and when we said 2 minutes it could be anything from 1-5. We saw a big improvement when we said ‘one more slide’ type countdowns that actually made sense to her.

But overall OP you’re holding the boundary, you’re doing well and it is just phase. I’d expect it to drop off by age 5 no matter what you do/don’t do.

I agree it's a phase he'll grow out of as he matures. Still v young. Sounds like you're doing all the right things, staying calm is so important.
I remember mine doing it and feeling v stressed about it though, it's upsetting sometimes. We've all been there!

Stop taking him shopping to places where they sell stuff that kids like

He's too young to manage his emotions

So literally any shop then?! And most soft plays, farms and zoos as you walk through a gift shop or they have a counter with crisps and sweets?

🤣 so basically you can stay home or go to the playground so long as it’s a shit one that doesn’t have a cafe?!

You need to use a visual timer, they don’t know what ’5 minutes’ feels like. You can’t reason with a small child whilst they are having a tantrum you just have to make sure they’re safe and stick to what you said. You can acknowledge they are sad or disappointed but that doesn’t change anything. With leaving, can you give him some agency eg say ‘what is the last thing you’d like to do / play with before we go’. If it’s ok most of the time then I wouldn’t worry, just a bad day. Everyone’s allowed that!

Neither of those situations involved a shop?