How can you find the balance between being a pushy nightmare demanding parent and being too laid back about their future?

[DiscoElysia]

I'd love people's views on this!

My DD is only young but I'm already thinking ahead and worrying about it.

My own parents were very much of the pushy / high standards / ambitious for their kids school, at least where academics were concerned. Anything less than a top grade was considered shameful. We were expected to crack on independently with our studies but if there was a whiff that we might be 'behind' (defined as anything less than on track for an A* in old money), alarm bells rang and stern or panicky proclaimations followed.

It worked to an extent. My siblings and I all got into state grammar schools (a thing in our area) and got great academic results and went to good unis - Oxbridge and Durham. We also weren't academic robots. Between us we had a pretty impressive list of sporting achievements, other extra-curricular, head boy / girl roles etc.

But as adults we are all pretty poorly adjusted emotionally I would say - all perfectionists, all anxious a lot, and all struggling with plenty of aspects of adult life. Two of the four of us have significant mental health problems; the other two have milder ones. Interestingly, despite excelling at school and at university, none of us are particualy high earners either. For some of us that's out of choice - a desire to do something state-sector focused that felt like a calling. For some of us it's just that somehow things haven't fallen into place or we've not had the resilience to hack it in certain types of environment.

I look back on my education and career so far and I'm grateful for the opportunities I've had, but at the same time a bit sad for my past self. I was so convinced that I had to excel; that anything less than perfect was failure; that there was only this one narrow path to walk in order to avoid disaster.

In contrast my DH has two older children, both adults, and both smart and lovely, and neither of them has ever had more than a minimum wage or slightly above minimum wage job. Both have needed a lot of financial support as adults. They have also both ended up with poor mental health and various struggles. The first time round his whole parenting attitude was laid back - let them find their own way, don't impose, just chill and be yourself... This doesn't seem to have been helpful either.

How on earth do we find the right balance of parents? I don't want to repeat the mistakes of the past but don't want to over-correct either and end up sort of negligent and letting my DD drift!

Wow, this his parenting thing is hard.

I think you already know this, from what you've already analysed and put in your opening post.
You just don't parent at either extreme.

You provide opportunities and support, but you ask them to 'do their best' rather than 'get an A*'. You don't let them just give up when things get difficult, and you don't 'helicopter in' the minute something isn't going to plan, but you support them to think about how they are going to deal with that. Yes, you help them set good habits initially, but you also acknowledge that because (for example) you revised like this and it helped you, that doesn't mean it is always the best way for someone else.

We just help them develop within what they want they are not carbon copies of us but their own person so we adapt to them

It's tempting to think there's a "right" way to parent, and your child is a blank sheet waiting to be filled in with what you feed them. This could just be linking in with your perfectionist tendencies.

after a while you'll be disappointed to find your kids are their own people, don't get me wrong, you do have maybe 20% influence but the vast majority is out of your hands (save for abuse/trauma etc)

The main thing is to treat them as people and meet them where they are, see things through their eyes

Alongside parenting style, I think you have to consider the nature of the child and adapt accordingly. I worked on the basis of keeping a careful eye on my DD, supporting her when she asked or I could see the need, and giving her the freedom to flourish as her own person. Fortunately, she was mostly sensible and self-motivated.

If I think back on how I was parented, I think one of my parents' biggest parenting-wins was trusting me to make my own decisions and to experience the consequences thereof -they were always on hand to discuss what might have been an alternative course of action, or how something could have been handled differently, but they didn't get in the way of me developing my own critical thinking skills and independence. This gave me a kind of confidence and self-reliance quite early on. My parents also made sure nothing ever felt particularly 'high stakes' -there was nothing to feel anxiety or nervous about, so those neural pathways just never developed in childhood and adolescence. I'm really grateful to them for this, and it is the biggest 'flash-point' between me and DP, who has a much more 'interventionist' parenting-style which, I feel, is emulating his own upbringing and causing similar issues with anxiety and perfectionism in our DC. We differ fundamentally in this area: I remain convinced that we build confidence and resilience through encouragement, support and explicitly showing our DC that we trust them to make reasonably good choices and decisions, while he feels that children develop competence through tough coaching and high expectations. As recently as today, I fed back to him that he talks about our amazing, engaged, clever teen DC like a pair of under-performing coworkers -not a shred of pride or care, only disgruntlement and comparison: "I would have hoped that, by this stage, they'd be able to x and y -just look at Trevor's DC (who happen to be 2 years older). It's a shame that your permissive parenting has let us down again." etc.

@johnd2 is correct, you need to think of yourselves as shepherds or gardeners, not designers and builders. Culturally we're moving away from the standard parenting model being strict parenting and compliant children that you and I grew up with, towards seeing children as individuals who need to be guided. Children are not blank slates, and parents have limited influence over many of their characteristics. We all need different things at different times.
We need to learn when children can be pushed and when they need to consolidate. Just like us adults.

I am from a free school meals family, 6 dcs, f didn’t believe in the education of women, didn’t give a toot.
I managed to get to grammar school despite that, hung on to do a’levels while he pushed me to leave, earn & contribute. Got a degree from a poly while working 20 hrs a week to survive. Zero parental support.
I have one ds. For him, school attendance was non-negotiable, I supported ds in every way, homework was priority, but achievements were celebrated regardless of grade. Didn’t expect top grades, just plenty of effort.
I chose independent school from 11 (as a single mum) because the state option was dire.
He has 10 good GCSEs and waiting for 3 stem a’level results. Forecast AAB. If he gets those I’ll be ecstatic.
To balance the academic stuff, he has a part time job where he earns his own money, has friends and responsibilities. 10 hrs a week.

He is calm, happy, positive, looking forward to uni and enjoys his subject - engineering.

I’ve always praised effort. Not expected perfection. Helped and encouraged where I could, cv, job apps etc. DS knows I love him, am hugely proud of him and have his back.

Neither of us is perfect and Uni will be a team effort financially, but we communicate well. What else can anyone do ?

If I think back on how I was parented, I think one of my parents' biggest parenting-wins was trusting me to make my own decisions and to experience the consequences thereof -they were always on hand to discuss what might have been an alternative course of action, or how something could have been handled differently, but they didn't get in the way of me developing my own critical thinking skills and independence. This gave me a kind of confidence and self-reliance quite early on. My parents also made sure nothing ever felt particularly 'high stakes' -there was nothing to feel anxiety or nervous about, so those neural pathways just never developed in childhood and adolescence. I'm really grateful to them for this

I remain convinced that we build confidence and resilience through encouragement, support and explicitly showing our DC that we trust them to make reasonably good choices and decisions

I agree with all of this @DorcasLanesOneWeakness .
Great analysis.

How sad you and your dc have to put up with what your dh has said at the end of your post.

I think shifting what you think of as 'success' would help. Worry less about academics and earning potential and more about happiness and emotional intelligence. Put your efforts into making sure she is confident and capable in life rather than just at school/at work.

I would also bear in mind that there is a genetic element to mental health and if she comes from a family where mental health problems are rife on both sides, she may well be predisposed to this regardless of how you parent. Educating yourself and making sure she's educated on how best to deal with this would be wise. Make sure there is no shame around it. Recognise it early. Seek treatment.

Thank you for the replies everyone. You've given me a lot to think about. I wrote my post in a tipsy panic late one evening when I was trying to get to sleep and kept getting lost in worries about the future. Somehow the perspectives shared here have helped me to step back. The shepherds and gardeners analogy is just wonderful to me. I have never ever thought of it like that (and should probably apply the same mentality to some other aspects of my life as well - definitely have a tendency to go into designer / builder mode when it is not appropriate).

@Meadowfinch and@DorcasLanesOneWeakness, thanks for sharing your own experiences. DorcasLanes, I'm sorry your DH doesn't get it. The examples you give of his perspective sort of mirrors how I think I might instinctively end up thinking based on my own upbringing and insecurities - sort of knee jerk sense of a need for certain rigid expectations to be met. I really want to let go of that way of thinking. I'll try to channel your approach more (and notice when I'm going into that other mode - I think I'll call it Anxious Demanding Mode!).

@NuffSaidSam , I definitely agree about needing to reflect on how I define success in my mind. I will also take your point about mental health. There is of course a genetic element. Perhaps rather than thinking 'please don't let my DD suffer too', I can aim to think more in terms of 'if DD suffers, that is part of life and something to be proactive in supporting her with, not a sign that everything will always be terrible for her'. I work in mental health and would always advocate for this perspective for others but haven't quite transferred this way of thinking to my personal life.

@johnd2: 'The main thing is to treat them as people and meet them where they are, see things through their eyes'. This is my quote of the year. I've written this down so I can keep coming back to it.

Thank you everyone!

I'm thinking about how perhaps it is all less about what a kid achieves than about how they interpret those achievements and take them into their sense of identity. For me and my siblings I think doing well in any area, academic, sporting or social, was taken as 'I have worth because I achieved this.' There wasn't appreciation for the journey, the inherent value of hard work regardless of the result, the learning experience that can come from not always achieving what you want, or for a sense of worth independent from the things you achieve.

I'm touched that I've provided your quote of the year! 😊
Maybe I should write it on the wall here too; in real life I'm sometimes better at talking the talk then walking the walk!
I'm glad you've got so much out of this thread, parenting is definitely a journey, and it sometimes feels like a lot of uphill!
Take care.