Breast feeding - whats going wrong?

[Cel119]

My baby is 10 days old. I have been breast feeding since birth. She lost 10% of body weight so have been advised to feed 3 hourly. When I start these feeds they last an hour at times before I give up and have to move. She starts feeding and sucking well and 10 minutes in she is lightly sucking and barely doing anything. I burp her put her on the other breast. She may do the odd strong suck and then back to light sucking. If I put her down she starts crying and chewing her hand signifying hunger. So I pick her up and she immediately falls asleep on the breast again. I put her down, she cries and wants to feed. The last weigh in after 3 days was 10g weight gain. After all the time I have spent feeding her I am very disappointed and feel p*ed off. I dont know what to do, or where to go from here. I am told the latch is perfect. I am contemplating going to formula as I have had enough and feel im wasting my time for nothing. My son is having to entertain himself and partner doing food. I dont even get time to brush my hair and when i do housework i am running around quickly before she starts up again. I actually am starting to dread her waking and feel sh** when I wake in the morning knowing its a day of this again, for absolutely no gain.

What is going wrong? What am I doing wrong?

You won't be doing anything wrong per se, rather you just need to work through what needs to be changed, if anything. Sometimes you just need time. Those first weeks are tough. I remember feeding with baby attached what felt like 24/7 for several weeks. One day he was attached for about 8 hours straight iirc.

Have you seen an IBCLC or gone to a breastfeeding group by specialists, from somewhere like NCT?

Was he born vaginally or via section? That can impact the amount of weight lost.

I found the infant feeding team / health visiting team were next to useless at breastfeeding. It really had to be someone really specialist when you're having issues.

Did you feed your previous child, or is this your first time?

Also you're 10 days PP. The housework can wait. That shouldn't be on you.

I highly recommend following Lucy Webber Feeding Support on Instagram and looking through her page a bit.

It may be worth trying breast compressions when she slows down feeding and is sleepy to give her another little burst to feed again.

My little one initially didn’t gain weight and we were put on a feeding plan and top ups but eventually were able to just breastfeed. It is super hard and you’re doing a great job.

I had a visit from the breast feeding specialist who runs the group near me. She showed me a latch and hold that didnt really work for me. I havent gone to any groups. The midwives have been visiting regularly and each gives different advice. One saying to give a dummy another saying to give one bottle in the night. But none really listening when I tell them what's happening. Had the midwife this morning and I was feeding her when she arrived(when am I not feeding her) and she said she looks satiated and fine and thats the end of the feed. As soon as that door closed behind her when she left, the baby woke and she was fussing and wanting feeding again.
She was born by section.

Your baby is only 10 days old! Honestly, I felt like I was constantly feeding in the first few weeks, this is normal. Frequent feeding is building your supply and it will settle down in a few weeks and you will find a 3/4 hourly pattern develops.

Doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong. Breastfeeding can be like this in the early days. Has your DD been checked for tongue tie? That’s the only thing that can make them take ages to feed sometimes.
If she is feeding for 10 mins though it’s likely the time after that is comfort sucking which can be boring and frustrating for you but is important for maintaining milk supply and obviously comforting for the baby. You could consider introducing a dummy, but only give it when you’re sure she’s not actively feeding anymore.
Feeding almost constantly is very normal for newborns, certainly every 2-3h. You won’t be able to breastfeed to a routine at least until she’s older.
Don’t worry too much about weight gain now that she is gaining, make sure she’s getting plenty of wet nappies and her poo is yellow not green (breastfed babies sometimes don’t poo every day though so don’t worry about that as long as it’s yellow and runny when she does go!)

Definitely recommend getting baby assessed for a tongue tie as it can greatly affect feeding which will drop babys weight.

Also, do some research on a good, deep latch. Most midwives/HVs dont actually know enough in my opinion. Follow mother.shaheda on Instagram, shes great and can do online consultations.

Finally, be kind to yourself. You are only 10 days in with this baby and no doubt your hormones are all over the place and you're running on empty. It won't be like this in a few weeks.

You aren’t wasting your time at all. This is something she needs to learn too and they can take a bit of time to figure it out, and your body is still adjusting. All of the comfort sucking helps with that. Even if the weight gain isn’t as rapid as you’d like just yet, all contact time is beneficial to them so you’re giving her benefits even just sitting there holding her. The early days are bloody hard going and, yes, often involve just sitting on the sofa while it feels like life is going on around you until BF is established, but 10 days in is no time at all for both of you to have figured out what to do and how it’s going to work in the long term.

When she’s falling asleep have you tried taking off her clothes or changing her nappy? Things that properly wake her up should hopefully help. DS used to cry if I took him off the breast and lay him down but he was still asleep so when he latched back on he’d just pass out again immediately. As cruel as I felt in my postpartum haze, he was stripped down and then changed. It woke him up enough that he could feed properly for a while.

Be kind to yourself. It really is a marathon not a sprint. She’s gaining and presumably having enough wet and dirty nappies, so you’re ok.

This sounds very stressful, it sounds like you’re doing a great job. If you wasn’t to continue breastfeeding I would focus on feeding responsively and looking for hunger cues, which it sounds like your doing. Nappy change, cold wipe, sleepsuit off can often keep baby awake to feed for longer but doesn’t feel nice. If you can manage it, let baby sleep at the breast too so they are in the right place if they get hungry.

this sounds exactly like my experience with my first baby. It felt like she was on the breast constantly. My mum commented that all I seemed to do was feed her. However I realised that she wasn’t just getting nutrition from breast feeding - some babies need to suckle more than others. That explains the falling asleep thing that you describe. My daughter almost constantly needed something in her mouth for comfort all the time! When she found her thumb things really settled and I got a bit of respite. I think we forget that they get so much more than milk from it. I don’t think you are doing anything wrong. It’s draining and hard work in the early days.

She has gained weight so she is fine. Most BF babies lose some birth weight (7-10%) and then slowly build again.

Formula companies have trained women to think something is wrong and that babies should gain rapid weight or else and that’s why only 14% of British mothers breastfeed to 6mo.

Babies cry and want to feed often. That’s their thing.

Has your milk come in? Do your breasts feel full and then softer after a feed? What gestation was she born at? It does sound like the whole situation needs a thorough review by a skilled lactation consultant. Your frustration is completely understandable! You must feel exhausted. Please remember though that breastfeeding doesn’t have to be all or nothing. It may be that your baby needs some top ups for a short time or even longer, but that doesn’t mean you need to stop breastfeeding! It sounds like she is doing really well at the breast. Breastfeeding and formula can be very successfully combined.

Also did anyone point out that feeding three-hourly is a minimum? Eight feeds in 24 hours is a bare minimum for a newborn. 10-12 or even more is what a lot of babies need. Your baby might do much better and gain more with shorter, more frequent feeds, as it sounds like she is doing a lot of comfort feeding after the initial active feed (which again is NORMAL, but she isn’t actually taking in a lot of milk, she is just at the breast because it is her happy place). I would probably try feeding two hourly instead. And last thing- look up breast compressions!

Huh? How have formula companies made women think anything?

Why do you think there are now laws about formula advertising? It started in the mid century and its effects have trickled down mother to child and health system to patient to now.

A landmark The Lancet 2023 Series on Breastfeeding revealed that the commercial baby formula industry uses exploitative marketing tactics, multi-billion-dollar strategies, and misleading scientific claims to target parents' anxieties and undermine breastfeeding.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)01931-6/fulltext

Does she tend to signal for the feed before the 3 hours, or are you always offering before she signals?

I would say 3 hours is about the minimum frequency, and I would try doing a day or so (ideally a day with partner at home) where you offer every hour, although once she switches to the more fluttery sucking take her off otherwise you will never get a break! 10 minutes is an OK duration of a feed and she might genuinely be done. TBH duration of feeds tells you very little information. But I would wonder whether she is getting tired and you're in a cycle where she isn't taking enough in and then lacks the energy to signal/want to feed properly until it's been a bit longer and then she's taking just enough to stave off that bigger hunger and repeat etc. IME doing a day where I just offered every hour would be like a supercharge to my supply in the following days and I could revert to feeding on demand or after 3 hours if baby had not signalled.

For normal days the fluttery sucking is beneficial so you can let her do it if it's not causing a problem, it will all be stimulating your supply and getting her a little more milk. But equally it's more like drips when they are doing this, so if it is causing a problem or you are just a bit fed up, it's OK to take them off - you aren't depriving them of any significant amount of milk.

With weight gain - any gain is good. Gain will not necessarily equate perfectly to number of calories received. It is a bit counterintuitive but they use up calories for everything else involved in just generally staying alive as well, not every single calorie will go towards growth and they tend to grow in spurts.

Is she getting at least 6/7 wet or dirty nappies a day? At least a couple should be poos. This is your best measure of what's going in - if it's going in then it will be coming out again. Weight gain is not linear and doesn't always follow a logical seeming line. If midwives are happy with weight gain, this is a great sign.

Interesting. Perhaps in the UK the advertising ban has been very successful because the message could not have been clearer that breast is best in my experience.

And yet the UK has one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the entire world.

I have 2 young dc. First one was a diffucult bf situation. Would also fall asleep while feeding, often within minutes. As I had no experience I assumed dc was not getting anything and switched to formula, but also did some breast feeding.
With my 2nd, I had a different approach. I just fed frequently, noted number of wet diapers and weighed baby daily. baby was almost ebf.
And is still feeding morning and night at 2y.

My advice: feed frequently. Once the strong suckling ceases, consider baby done and give a dummy. Weigh baby and note wet diapers.
I use a Baby Tracker app. And I had a baby sling scale. Ut's like a luggage scale with a wide cloth sling. Zero it with the sling attached then put baby in it with a fresh dry diaper on only then lift and note weight. Do this every morning.

You are post-partum. It is very overwhelming now that you have 2. You cannot expect to do anything other than care for your baby and yourself. Nothing. Else. You are lucky to have a partner and he needs to step up majorly.

I would agree with people here - definitely normal for bf baby to be constantly feeding because they use it to soothe themselves. It was non-stop with my last baby, even more because she had tongue tie and would not latch on as well (so would take longer to feed, often falling off because it was tiring but latching back on because she was hungry). Would be good to get them checked for tongue tie (as already mentioned).

You don't mention if the health visitor was worried about their weight (unless I didn't read that correctly). It is funny when they mention to feed more often, when they are barely off the boob.

I would also say it is important to make sure you are eating right (it can increase calorie intake by 400), and drinking (at least) 2.5L (3L is better in this heat)! It is really hard to do this with a baby hanging off you at all times, and it is easy to forget to drink. If it is possible for someone to help, having a nap here and there would also be great for you to make sure you are rested. All this can interfere with your body coping with the increased milk demand. Also, it might be good to check your iron levels because this can interfere with milk production too.

Good luck - you are in the ‘trenches’ and (in my opinion) the most difficult stage. At 3 or 4 months it becomes so much easier and they are in a better cycle.

You’re doing really well to persevere and it does get easier IME.

Have you tried keeping her in a sling instead of putting her down to sleep? As a PP said, it could be that she is not getting enough sleep so maintaining that contact could help her. You moving around with her in a sling will help to soothe her and she will be out of the way if you want to have some time with your son. You definitely shouldn’t be worrying about housework!

There's some good advice here
https://laleche.org.uk/my-baby-needs-more-milk/
Do please consider giving the National Breastfeeding Helpline a call or you can contact by direct message.

Have a Google of breast compressions, worth a try when she gets sleepy then switch to the other side. Best wishes to you both.

Can you ask to be referred for more support.

My experienxe is that we have a very clear messaging campaign that breast is best but absolutely crap support to help women successfully breastfeed. The vast majority of women hear the message (how could they not? It’s everywhere, including on tins of formula) and try to start breastfeeding but face a lot of challenges and can’t access good support. Midwives, health visitors and other professionals just aren’t clued up on BF so women are left feeling confused about what to do, worried their child is undernourished and guilty about using formula given the very clear breast is best messaging.

I don’t know what the answer is. Obviously it would be amazing if there was more support, but the NHS is
under so much strain im not sure they should be diverting resources to support breastfeeding.

I agree. And part of that lack of support was caused by formula companies because they took out the natural people who would usually offer advice and help for breastfeeding - mothers and grandmothers who have done it before. Take out a single generation of BFers and suddenly everyone needs advice from the health service instead and receives messaging from anxious mothers and grandmothers who say to just top up with formula because it worked for them. And as you said the healthcare service doesn’t have the resources or expertise to help.

Anyway this thread isn’t about this it’s to help OP. But OP id second the advice to chat to La Leche League or The Breastfeeding Network has chat rooms and a crisis phone line you can call.

Is she still 10% under as at day 10? Is she weeing/pooing okay?

Like someone else said, try and really wake her up before a feed by changing her nappy first. The first few days/weeks can be really hard to get into the swing of feeds but I promise it does get much easier! X

Here's my tips... Swap sides much more frequently- no more than 10min per side and swap, swap. This is the best way to increase supply. Feeding for an hour at a time is normal at this age...if possible, call in some support (parents, PIL?) to help with meals etc so you can focus on this one thing.