My DD never stops…ADHD or just being 6?!

[BarbaraVineFan]

My DD, 6 and a half, is an absolute bundle of energy. When she’s not running or jumping she is dancing. She struggles to sit still and is always talking or singing. We are away at the moment with my dad and if she isn’t saying ‘ mummy
look at this’, ‘ mummy watch me’ she is saying it to her grandad. I think I am noticing it more because my dad is in his eighties and although he is really fit, I can see that he is finding it exhausting. Do you think this is normal for a 6 year old or should I be looking into an ADHD diagnosis? She is doing very well at school, is reading well above her age level and her teachers haven’t mentioned anything but I am a bit worried.

She also gets songs stuck in her head on a loop, which I have read can be a sign of ADHD

It could be ADHD but that is not enough to go on. DC2 who is formally diagnosed with ADHD sung the same songs on repeat. Please tell us more.

Sounds identical to my DD9 who is currently being assessed for ADHD (I suspect some autism too but the ADHD is leaping off the page really - as is she 😂). After keeping a close eye on what her classmates were like at parties and play dates and raising it with early years teachers, the year two teacher ended up raising it with me which was a relief in a lot of ways. People will try to tell you it’s just how young kids are but I can spot the difference in my daughter a mile off, so don’t be deterred! I am riddled with ADHD and it’s ruined most of my academic and professional career really, I wish my parents had been clued up/weren’t staunch disbelievers of these ‘new fangled ideas’ 🙄

Completely normal in my experience. Some children are more active physically than others and some are more mentally active. Theres a wide span of whats within normal child development and if her activity levels are not detracting from her education, id not be in a rush to seek any diagnosis. Just enjoy having a lively child!

She has never slept well, doesn’t seem to need much sleep. For example tonight she was reading until nearly 10pm despite having been up since 7 and having been playing at the beach all day. (I have tried making her stop reading earlier- doesn’t work- she just stays awake talking or singing to herself and calling me endlessly).
On the topic of reading, she loves it and will sometimes read for 45 mins or more, which I think could be hyper focus?
She often doesn’t respond to instructions unless you get her full attention first

Follow your gut. If you are ADHD it’s highly likely she is. (same here but DD diagnosed) but if no ND in family less likely

I haven’t been diagnosed with ADHD but sometimes wonder if I have it (but only from the ‘symptoms’ listed on random internet videos, which isn’t really reliable!)

My DD has recently been diagnosed with ADHD aged 23. She was a very active high-achieving academic child, reading at 3, playing instruments to a high level, acting, singing, dancing, 3 scholarships, excellent degree and masters. It started appearing as a young teen in that she experienced high anxiety and physical symptoms of blackouts and adrenaline rushes whereas previously she’d been very happy as well as being extremely active. She started struggling in her academics, not being able to concentrate on what the teacher was saying, pushing herself to maintain the same level she was used to. She ended doing v well, but had lots of CBT. Hated first yr of uni and almost failed her first year due to task paralysis, anxiety and an inability to concentrate. Put on antidepressants and beta blockers. Now on ADHD medication prescribed by her psychiatrist, she’s much happier and is making plans. Can’t say it’s been easy for her, and it’s been heartbreaking watching her struggle with it. We are now hopeful for her future and are just wrapping her in love and security right. We just want her to be happy, sod the academics! Luckily we are fine financially and can afford the psychiatrist and the therapy. The NHS don’t have the finances to give proper treatment and she feels that years were wasted relying on what they could offer.

Does it matter?

I don't say this to downplay ADHD - and I think that diagnosis can be really helpful, but generally diagnosis helps when there is a problem that needs addressing.

Your post describes a happy girl who is doing really well at the moment:

"She is doing very well at school, is reading well above her age level and her teachers haven’t mentioned anything but I am a bit worried."

So there isn't really a problem to fix? All a diagnosis will do at this stage is give a label, which can be helpful, or not, depending on how it is used by those around them.

You might be fully accepting and open minded but not everyone is, and once you attach that label, you open your daughter up to their judgement/different treatment. For example, as a dyslexic kid - I was often not asked to help out with jobs involving writing/reading that I could have actually done because people had the label of "Dyslexic kid" in their mind associated with me. Labels can be hurtful if people start to lower their expectations or limit how they think of someone because of them to a point that undermines their capability. Obviously, accommodating for conditions is important, for children who are actually really struggling or don't have the capability, but it can be harmful if the interpretation of the label doesn't match the child's actual ability.

Personally, I would just bank it in the back of my mind - and if there comes a time later on when she actually has difficulties or starts to have problems in school/life, then you are already ready and aware of it. But personally, trying to get a diagnosis when there is no problem to fix doesn't seem very productive.

You only get an ADHD diagnosis if you are struggling - it is literally part of the diagnostic criteria. Intelligent girls in particular are very good at hiding their struggles.

if someone thinks they have ADHD, I would always encourage them to get a diagnosis because there is effective treatment for ADHD. I can’t think of any other health problem where people would routinely recommend not getting a diagnosis (and therefore) treatment) to avoid the stigma of a label. The risks of not getting a diagnosis are much higher than the risks of getting a diagnosis. People with ADHD, but particularly unmedicated and unsupported ADHD are at a significant greater risk of numerous mental and physical health problems eg drug and alcohol abuse, diabetes, migraine, depression, anxiety, ME/CFS, EDS, POTS. People with ADHD are also at a greater risk of bullying and domestic abuse.

So yes, it does matter a lot. ADHD is a highly significant diagnosis. The earlier in life you get diagnosed, the less likely you are going to have significant problems. I’m late 50s. I was diagnosed a year ago with ADHD. I have many of the health problems I list above and am a domestic abuse victim. If I’d had the diagnosis a few decades ago, I might still be well enough to work and might not need all the therapy I have.

I was going to ask you how she sleeps, That does sound like possible ADHD but that is still not much to go on.

Lots of children that age seem to have endless energy! If she's doing well at school and her teachers aren't seeing any concerns, I probably wouldn't jump straight to ADHD. I'd just keep an eye on how she's getting on over time, and if you start noticing that it's affecting her learning, friendships or daily life, then it would be worth exploring further.

Definitely not enough of a reason to start thinking about ADHD. What you describe sounds perfectly consistent with normal young person behaviour. You don't even mention anything that is causing her distress. Don't start looking for a medical framing of her behaviour when it is only other people who are finding her hard.
Regarding the highly energetic behaviour, this sounds like something positive - are you sure you wouldn't regard it as such if she was a boy?

And regarding the constant attention seeking, the first thing to look at is the way in which you relate to her. Sometimes well-meaning parental behaviour can reinforce and enlarge a child's natural tendency to seek frequent feedback from adults around them. I'm sure that there are plenty of parenting tips out there about improving a child's self-sufficiency.

No one can say "No, she doesn't have ADHD." But I think that parents' threshold for starting to think about it is way too low atm. Even if she did meet some diagnostic threshold, you should not be looking to frame her 'way of being' as a medical condition unless she is suffering.

Adhd is only diagnosed if its causing a problem at school. So getting up, fidgeting, talking.

Just read your suggestion that her love of reading might be 'hyperfocus', @BarbaraVineFan . That seems really, really inappropriate. You are trying to massage something entirely positive (and normal) and a source of joy into the shape of dysfunction.

You have also done the same with her opposite behaviour - struggling to sit still. So when she is bounding about energetically about, that is the problem; and when she is sitting (or lying) quietly doing one lovely thing, that is the problem. In reality, neither of them is a problem.

Her personality and preferences do probably have some underlying partially neurological foundation (that is true for all of us, and around half of us are likely to have neurological characteristics closer to, rather than further away from, the ADHD neurotype). But to frame her as having a disorder on this basis, without citing any evidence of distress, seems like significant overreach, based on a natural parental hyperattentiveness, informed by the current social preoccupation with ADHD.

Just noticed your username and if you are a barbara vine fan, constantly reading engaging books with real pleasure, then of course your daughter is likely to have picked up a love of reading. The fact that she is capable of enjoying it speaks against ADHD if anything.

Think back to when she was a baby and about 2-3 years of age. My ADHD diagnosed DD I certainly had a strong incline by 2-2.5. Things she did

span around contestantly

babbled and talked constantly

didn’t nap in the day from age 1

stay up all day until 9-11pm every night, wake up a few times in the night and still get up by 6-6:30am

reactions were massive - if she tasted something she didn’t like the reaction was huge and same if she loved something the whole street would know about it

song and phrase repeating

hilariously funny all the time - intentionally or not

fall over a lot

laughing so loud all the time

obsessed with water

chatted to absolutely everyone including random children wherever she went

did not react /care when told off but if told no for something then a huge meltdown

very independent

randomly start taking her clothes off when we went places and shoes. As she was older she says it’s because she doesn’t like the feel of the clothes

very intelligent but can’t help shouting out answers in school

very empathetic towards others

tries to people please in our house

reactive to certain smells, taste sounds etc

very easy going but when it’s something she really wants or wants to do then get out of her way

zero understanding of time management- god help up at exam time on the future

loved hiding under things - feeling secure she says

says the most random things like it just pops out of her mouth without thinking

jumping dancing cartwheeling everywhere we go

can not walk down the street, she’s claiming on a wall then jumping off the curb then she’s looking at an ant then she’s doing a cartwheel then she’s spinning

these behaviours were very very very prominent from 2-2.5. And as someone who’s had 4 children she stood out at the wild one

But girls with ADHD often don’t do that. They tend to have mental hyperactivity and anxiety. DD2 got diagnosed at age 20. Did well at school. Neither primary nor secondary school picked up on anything. They came out of school with 3 good A-Levels but I think they would have got 3 excellent A-Levels had they been diagnosed and treated in childhood.

We neurodivergents like reading just as much as the next person. There are even people researching it:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/27546330251403220

I’ve got ADHD and absolutely love reading. I’ve always had a book on the go from a young age, the key to this is as long as I pick the book I can focus on it, if I had to read a book in school for my English coursework I couldn’t focus or take it in because I was being made to do it.

She sounds like my DD who I am certain has ADHD, when I mentioned it to my partner, he sheepishly mentioned she might get it from me as he thinks I also have it 😂 my Dad agreed.
The songs on repeat burns part of my soul. It’s not even the entire song, it’s the same line in a song over and over and over.
Relentlessly energetic, won’t sit still, won’t respond to instructions, incredible reader beyond her years, has never watched a full film sitting down, obsessed with a particular food until she suddenly HATES IT, she’s now 9 and honestly hasn’t slowed down or changed since she was 6.
The NHS waiting list is 4 years where I live and to go private is £2,500.

It could be but not enough to go on from just that. Part of the diagnosis criteria is being significantly impacted in your life, is she struggling with anything? From you’ve said she is a happy girl who does well in school and has loads of energy. My dd has been referred for both ADHD and ASD (I have a diagnosis of both), she is very much the same as your dd in terms of energy and sleeping, but also is very reactive and will have huge meltdowns and violent towards us during these or when she’s frustrated, doesn’t respond to instructions well, sensory issues, limited foods, issues with toilet so still in night nappies at age 6 and took a very long time to potty train, good at school but very fidgety and struggles to get through reading in reading group time or other concentration work sometime so gets taken out with the TA to concentrate 1 on 1. Does any of this resonate with your dd?

I would also say don’t listen to those Facebook reels. They often do list traits of ADHD but most people I’m sure could list some traits about themselves, a lot of them aren’t that unusual. The difference really is the amount of traits and the intensity of them, and also the criteria of being significantly impacted. You have to be able to meet the diagnostic criteria to have ADHD. So having songs playing on repeat in your head can be normal for lots of people, but having songs on repeat, as well as multiple conversations in your head at the same time, watching ‘videos’ playing back in your mind, going over scenarios all at once so much that you get distracted from anything else and it makes you anxious and stressed for example.

My DC's assessor uses the term 'driven by a motor' to describe a hyperactive ADHD child. There is also inattentive ADHD which is slightly different, although my DC has both.

Key signs for my DC were:

• Driven by a motor. Will go and go and go when doing a physical activity. Takes hours to exhaust the huge amount of energy.
• When tired, going into manic overdrive. Becoming even more hyper than usual.
• Physically unable to respond to admonitions to sit/remain in place. Literally unable to stop moving.
• Constantly fidgeting while doing something requiring focus (e.g. reading while twitching, moving arms/legs/flexing muscles, tapping, biting nails).
• Walked abnormally early 7 to 8 months (was freaky to see).

There were/are of course many more, but these are just a few.

Edited to say, school said there was no evidence of ADHD. Whereas the highly experienced and very well renowned NHS consultant paediatrician that we saw said DC had a 99% ADHD profile. One of the clearest, most obvious cases she'd ever seen.

I disagree hugely. I am an adult with ADHD and ASD (diagnosed as an adult). As a child I was an avid reader. In fact I used to spend hours reading The Reader's Digest 'You and Your Rights'.

Girls don't present like boys do.

If diagnostic services could act on demand, then I'd agree with don't call it a problem until it's a problem. The trouble is that when it is a problem, it can emerge quite suddenly - the nuts on the proverbial bus wheels have been loosening without anyone noticing, then suddenly the wheels fall off the bus. Everyone says 'the bus looked fine!'. It then takes years to get to the head of the queue.

DD3 was an all rounder. Very academic, sporty, sociable, etc. When the wheels fell off it was a huge crash. She ended up completely out of school, and is now in a specialist SEMH school. Luckily, we had started the ASD process a couple of years beforehand, and when CAMHS said that it would be a 2 year process to get treated for OCD, and 4 year process to get diagnosed and treated for ADHD (which they were sure she had), someone kindly funded a private psychiatrist.

DD3, who was pegged as Oxbridge material, now has diagnosed ADHD, ASD, OCD, and emotional trauma from her school experience.

I’d look into it if you feel there’s a problem but I’m not sure there is one? She’s happy, she’s got lots of energy, she’s doing really well in school and she loves to read. I wouldn’t say reading for 45 minutes is hyperfocussing- children who love to read will easily read for that long. At that age, I would read for hours because I loved it so much. Staying up till 10pm reading or talking to herself isn’t that odd really- my daughter has always talked herself to sleep! It sounds to me like you’re reading into every tiny little thing she does. I would adopt a wait and see approach as right now she sounds lovely and happy.