Anyone had severe postnatal anxiety and depression after a baby in mid-40s?

[Jennifer48]

Has anyone else had a baby in their mid-40s and experienced mental imbalance and severe anxiety and depression afterwards that did not respond to treatment? I don't enjoy anything. Neither being with the baby, nor being away from him. I am six months post-partum and have been in touch with a perinatal mental health team including a psychiatrist, psychologist and taking anti-depressants for a while but nothing has worked. I do wonder if it might have to do with my age - or breastfeeding.

I did struggle with my mental health prior to pregnancy but how I'm feeling now doesn't feel like the depression I experienced previously - before, I felt like myself when I was depressed, just a depressed me, if that makes sense. Since baby was born, I don't even feel like myself at all. It's like a very intense panic mixed, oddly, with depression, and a feeling that my life is over.

Worth trying with some different medication, too. I tried five different antidepressants before finding one that helped me. Certainly wasn’t a magic wand, but lifted me out of the darkest depths.

One final thing (and I know this has become a bit of a trope on MN, but hear me out…).
Is there a possibility you could be neurodivergent? I got a late diagnosis of ADHD (years after my kids were born), and it made so much sense as to why I fucking struggled with the baby and toddler stage.

I loved parenting older kids and teens, though ☺️

Thank you @MrsBigglesworth there is unfortunately no mother and baby unit in Northern Ireland.

As for motivation, I wanted to be a mother desperately, for decades. It was visceral. I do have mother friends from the mum and baby groups I go to and everyone says it's hard but my health visitor told me it'd rare not to feel any joy. Of the few people I know who feel as unwell as I do, none have ever reassured me that it ever got any better. One, the mother of a five year old and a six year old, told me she still feels that she is still in the thick of it! -and her children sleep through, aren't on nappies, can dress themselve, etc
So I dread the future, I'm so sorry for what your friends husband did but I can understand just not being able to take it anymore.

@Jennifer48 I’m just wondering, how does it feel if you think about having more time to yourself? So, the person you mentioned says she still feels in the thick of it - presumably despite having more time to herself (if I’m right in thinking her kids would both be at school given they’re school-aged). Do you feel like you’d have the same daily feelings of dread if you knew you reliably had time to yourself each day/week - a break from the slog of childcare but also time to build yourself up again? Does that offer you any relief at all/does it feel too far in the future right now?

I'm in my late 30s but also sufferered with severe PND and maternal OCD. I was admitted to an MBU with mu daughter because of my suicidal ideation and remained there for 2mths. With medication, therapy and time I got better and honestly I feel like myself again now and am generally very happy despite life's challenges. But I've definitely been where you are and can relate to not recognising yourself anymore. It really can get better, even if you can't see it right now. Good luck x

I'm sorry there are no mother-baby units. And yes I totally understand - pre-child I was totally baffled and saddened by what her husband did, post-child I completely understand (though I think he had a few more reasons).

I am glad at least you desperately wanted to be a mother. At least in having a child you fulfilled that need and had you not had a child you would likely have still had that feeling (despite your feelings now). It is easy to fantasise about/idealise the path not taken but we don't know how it would truly have been.

A big help for us has been my mother-in-law take my child every second day and overnight on the weekend. (We're lucky she LOVES mothering.) Could this be something you could build up to? It gives regular reprieve that helps me keep limping along. I know this sounds terrible but would adoption even be a possibility? Rather than ending your life?

I am very happy to keep talking here. I truly do feel I have some understanding, though I do feel some joy. As the child grows and can interact more and give more back, I think there is more capacity for this.

What are the things that you like doing? What makes you, you?

@SourSoppy I'm having blood work done on Monday 27th. The issue is whether progesterone and estrogen can reliably be measured at six months post-partum, and still breastfeeding. The psychiatrist says it's too soon, I haven't yet had a period since giving birth, whereas the GP says progesterone and estrogen can be measured at this time, it just might be harder to interpret the results. I'm also aware that perimenopause doesn't just show up on a blood test, symptoms might be the main indicator. As my main symptom is intense panic and dread and depression, I don't know whether it's just severe PND or mixed with perimenopause.

@MrsBigglesworth It does sound like you have an awful lot of help in the form of your mother-in-law. I have no such help like that. My mother is very helpful buy she's in her 70s. I'm hoping for a nursery place for my baby over the coming months.

@Jennifer48

Hello, I’m so sorry to hear what you’re going through, it’s terrifying and I have been there.

I was suicidal last year aged 41 and (long story short) started on HRT. It might have saved my life. It took months to get fully back to normal, but I felt a positive difference after a few days.

As you may know, there is LOT of poor clinical knowledge around hormones; many doctors talking with confidence when they do not actually have the latest evidence and prescribing advice. It is maddening.

It’s quite rare to find Gp’s that are totally up to date, and because of this, may I strongly encourage you to seek out a menopause specialist.

Dr Louise Newsome is an amazing champion for women and hormone treatments; her clinics offer video consults. This is what I used. They were able to prescribe me hormones after this. Blood work was not necessary.

Her clinics are run by incredibly competent and kind women. There is a cost but if you can possibly afford it - I think in your situation (life and death) it is worth it

https://www.newsonhealth.co.uk/clinics?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=23784558370&utm_campaign=Sitelink&utm_term=menopause%20newson&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23784558370&gbraid=0AAAAAp5RHJ7MROT06ICIg5s_TszudQ6z4&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6_HSBhCpARIsANvVltYhp0SyF6-VVL3GSpBXn--0csZLYmEl7vP_QGjQzt9BJZ4dAgXxzWIaAiX7EALw_wcB

Here’s Louise talking to a fellow doctor who had PND just as you describe (extreme anxiety) after all 3 pregnancies and went on to get hormone treatment which she describes fixing things ‘over night’

Skip forward to minute 4.00 to see the start of that chat

Thank you @Wyldemint My fear is what if I stop breastfeeding, start HRTnamd still feel like this? I'm sorry to sound like someone who has a problem for every solution, but obviously I'm at a very low ebb and can't see a way out.

Hi @Jennifer48 ! If it helps, I was at my lowest ebb around 6 months and went to a mother-baby unit then. I really wanted to escape my reality so fantasising about adoption or suicide was very strong. Another thing that helped me was my husband listed a range of options, the most extreme being abandonment of the family, that were preferable to suicide. Does your mother know the severity of your feelings? I understand she is in her 70s so can't help as much.

This sounds so hard. Are you still having therapy with the NHS? If not, can you afford to go private – perhaps even go twice a week? I know therapy sometimes feels pointless when you’re having a crisis, but it might be helpful to see someone long-term. There are even psychoanalytic parent-infant therapists who help mums with PND bond with their babies.

There is mother and baby unit in Northern Ireland. My mother is aware that I have intense panic but for understandable reasons, I do not want to tell her that I'm suicidal.
If I had a partner I would definitely contemplating leaving but stupidly I have done this on my own - there is no father on the scene amd that's all I will say about that.
I did meet with someone from social services on Tuesday to discuss adoption but I know it won't happen because it would sever all links with my family and friends, it would tear the family apart. They would not forgive me, I think. It is also best to get a baby adopted as young as possible, I believe, and the baby is already six months old, he'd be walking and talking by the time he would be adopted and I think it could really damage a child for life.

6 months post birth was the absolute lowest point for me, too. Do the people in your life know the severity of what’s going on with you?

I found PND extremely lonely, worse than ‘regular’ depression for how isolated you feel because it comes with such tremendous guilt and shame. It’s not something you should be carrying alone.

I’m sorry, I just read your last update.
How do you feel about stopping breastfeeding? It might alllw you some more time to yourself. You’ve done amazingly well to get to six months.

I went away when my first child was 6 months old. I mean - left my baby with my mum, got on a plane, checked into a hotel in a foreign city for a week. It didn’t magically solve anything, but it was the start of getting some thoughts straight in my head and some perspective. Some in my family judged me harshly for it, but it was that or go completely mad.

Thank you for responding to.my questions, @Jennifer48. I do remember you said you have no mother baby unit in Northern Ireland, I just wanted to share that I think 6 months was my lowest point in case that helped you feel a little less alone in how you're currently feeling. I think the adrenaline/novelty/hope that things will soon improve of the earliest few months, kind of wears off by that age, reality sets in and you're still exhausted, sleep may be all over the place, the baby is learning new skills and may be clingy and fussy, etc.

@SourSoppy my experience of motherhood also leads me to think I'm neurodivergent. I haven't pursued a diagnosis but my perinatal psychologist is of this opinion. I love freedom, autonomy, silence, feeling no pressure at home and just being myself, need lots of alone time, don't like being accountable to others about my whereabouts etc. - but also really love children and wanted a family and lacked the insight that my personal qualities weren't really compatible with motherhood. I masked well and thought I was social and functional but didn't realise how much my home life set-up was scaffolding that. I find the groundhog day, trapped, chaotic nature of infancy and child-rearing quite unbearable. I am not sure if that resonates with your feelings, @Jennifer48? I don't know if sharing my experiences helps, I know this thread is about supporting you. I just wanted to share with you that you're not alone, you're doing so well to get through each day, whatever is going on for you you are still a good person, and honestly, your care for your child and wanting the best for them and worrying about the impact of adoption shows that. I have spent so much time/accessed a lot of help in trying to make sense of my situation so I'm happy to keep sharing thoughts/ideas, or if you want, provide a non-judgemental listening ear here without trying to problem-solve. ❤️

I should have typed, above, that there is no mother and baby unit in N. Ireland. And I can't go back and edit that message.

@SourSoppy I co-sleep with the baby at night so I couldn't leave him for a night. Did you sleep train? Does that help? And does stopping breastfeeding help?

It's nearly impossible to think with clarity when your brain is being relentlessly pounded by anxiety, and yet you still have to keep a tiny baby alive. Honestly I feel for you SO much.

Please try and seek out a specialist, @Jennifer48 - I just know they can help you.

They will be able to give you the exact information you need, better than a regular GP or indeed any of us here.

People love a whinge at baby groups. It’s what they are made for.

Honestly when they start talking and walking it’s the most joyful thing.

Yes it’s still hard work but you get so much back. Every milestone. Every achievement. Seeing the world through the eyes of optimism of youth. The wonder at a ladybird. My one and a half year olds joy at a windmill. It is beautiful.

Don't worry, I knew that was a typo about the mother-baby unit. Sleep training does help, I think. We did it at 4 months and my child's sleep improved drastically and having that space from my child at night helped.

@Jennifer48do your HCP know about your ideation - this is very important. Mine was an about self harm which I have never experienced before or since - but my HCP knew and we had a ‘safety plan’. If you are still breastfeeding and this is compromising you mentally and or physically and preventing you accessing medication that could alleviate your distress then I wouldn’t think twice about transitioning to bottle because the most important thing is your health and this action might be the chink of light that frees up a tiny bit of emotional capacity to soothe or bring some calm. For me there was also undiagnosed ND as well as cPTSD from unresolved childhood trauma - both of which I only became award of when my life blew up a second time at menopause but which were my ‘normal’ dysfunctional/exhausted personality my whole life - throw on top PND and it was a bin fire. I did come through it though and also chose to have another baby but only when I had everything in place because I knew if I had my meds, support, coping mechanisms all ready and frontloaded it was just a situation of putting one foot in front of the other when it happened again (which it did) - but it wasn’t as bad because I didn’t go undiagnosed, unsupported, unmediated for 6 months PP. I hope you have some deep self compassion to give your self a break at this hideous time - as well as be proud that you are reaching out and seeking ways to get better - and you will.

Thank you @Bredaa Key worker amd psychiatrist are aware that things are very bad, but, troublingly, neither of them know what to do. I have a key worker who had a word with my mum but I begged her not to use the words "suicide" or "safety plan" as I don't want to worry my mum. You might say she'd be more worried if her daughter committed suicide, and I agree when I word it as starkly as that, but what's worrying me is that the perinatal mental health team do not know in what direction to take my treatment. The psychiatrist said that to me on the phone.

Hello again. We sleep trained at 4.5 months, which made things easier. We needed that space for ourselves at night and all three of us needed better sleep. It was a physically and emotionally tough 3 weeks of training with a LOT of sustained crying (and we hired a sleep consultant) but that structure helped both him and us. I don’t think I could have sleep trained without another adult’s support, though.

My feelings on it all are similar to those of@MrsBigglesworthand I have only one child as a result.

You are not alone.

I am with @SourSoppy. Have recently completed the assessment for ASD but don’t meet threshold for enough of the criteria. However, the mental health nurse who assessed me suggested I might have hyperactive-type ADHD. She said it didn’t always manifest as physical hyperactivity; mental hyperactivity is also an issue and I definitely have that. I really struggled with the sheer tedium of the early years: I couldn’t stop my mind racing and wandering - thinking of the million and one things I needed to be doing (or felt I needed to be doing) while with my son. It was a bloody nightmare TBH.

I totally hear you @Piglet89 and @MrsBigglesworth the psychoanalyst suggested I just be neurodivergent but the waiting list here to get an official diagnosis is over 2 years, and it costs more than 2 grand to get a diagnosis privately. I can't afford that and I am not sure it would make a massive difference to know one way for sure or the other.
But @Piglet89 as you said it's a nightmare and knowing I probably have years of this still ahead of me is unbearable.