How to handle 8yos doing something really naughty

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

My 8yo twins are high energy but essentially good kids. BoyTwin especially is responsible and sensible. GirlTwin can be cheeky but basically, they can both be trusted to go to bed on time, go for a short walk on their own, make a simple dinner with adult supervision.

So I was really shocked today when I heard them giggling together in the garage, put my head round the door to look - and found they had climbed and got a screwdriver and were repeatedly stabbing it into the side of an old box of books we have in there.

Some of the books are too damaged to read again. Several are presents I bought DH years back so have some sentimental value.

I am honestly shocked. I gave them a massive telling off and asked them to do a chore taking care of our house (weeding). They will not be able to buy a cake at the school bake sale on Tues, and they have lost any screen time for a week, and will have early bedtimes for 1w.

I am really sad. Our kids do silly or daft things but never something deliberately destroying someone else's property.

Would you feel the same? How would you handle it?

I think multiple punishments for doing something wrong is over the top.

So they knew that box contained books belonging to their dad and then still stabbed the box? I’m sorry but they knew they were damaging those books, they aren’t babies at 8. Yes I would punish them, but more important would be for their dad to tell them how hurt and upset he is that they wanted to destroy something special to him. They need to know how stupid actions can really impact someone’s feelings. Imagine if they start destroying friends possessions and then laugh about it?

Stick to your guns on this one. Kids need to learn the value of things and that they can’t go around damaging property. The fact they laughed would infuriate me more.

They can be trusted at 8 years old to go to bed on time on their own, go for solo walks, and make their own dinner?
I've never met an 8 yo capable of doing these things. I'm not sure whether to be really impressed or a little bit sad they already do so much for themselves and you've got disproportionately angry about- to my mind at least- a very normal careless non malicious incident...

Yes I think there are too many punishments. I don’t think they thought about the consequences of the actions - but that’s a life lesson too.

So you would never allow an 8yo to be in a kitchen? Or outside where they could theoretically open the garden shed and take out a spade with a sharp edge?

I just don't think that is reasonable or that most households work like that. We have cleaning materials with childproof caps on a high shelf in the loo but of course at 8yo could drag a chair in and pull the bottle down if really determined.

I do feel strongly that kids need to develop independence and judgement. I don't actually think it is healthy for a Y4 kid to literally have an adult watching them at all times to ensure they don't misbehave.

Normally, they warrant that trust!

Sounds like they were egging each other on. Kids can do daft and impulsive things. That volume of punishments is OTT

No, @dairydebris I meant they go to bed without an issue (I put them to bed).

Yes they make dinner with supervision. I said, with an adult. They love it. They sit at the kitchen table with some vegetables and a chopping board and make "Twinsalad".

Yes they go for short walks. Why not? They walk down from our small cul de sac to a field about 250m away, and back. They like having that small amount of independence.

I think it's really healthy.

But this isn’t ’thoughtless cruelty’ it’s two young children having a bit of impulsive fun without understanding the consequences of their actions.

I get the sense you only have young children?

People with older children have lived experience of healthy and safe ways to develop independence.

Of course children can go into the kitchen, no one suggests otherwise. But it's not advisable to leave young kids unsupervised for long periods with access to tools, knives, bleach - because young children do not have a developed understanding of consequences, danger etc.

Leaving kids unsupervised in a garage with tools sounds like an incident waiting to happen. And in your case, the incident happened.

Seriously? They are not "left unsupervised for long periods". They were in the garage for just over 5 mins I would estimate.

No, the twins are the youngest of my children.

I do not consider our parenting is unhealthy or unsafe.

Bloody hell op, they poked some holes in an old cardboard box, not stabbed a kitten with a machete. They probably thought it was junk, not anything sentimental. So extra chores, 7 days early bedtime, 7 days no screens, and missing the bake sale. So 16 punishments for poking a box. What are you going to do when they actually do something really naughty?

Your punishments do not fit the crime. The children did not intend to cause any upset. Presumably, you’ve explained why you’re upset and that their behaviour was wrong, and you’ve given them an immediate and appropriate punishment (weeding), now it’s time to let it go and move on.

Hmmm… would you say that if they were in someone else’s house and destroyed something belonging to them?
And is it just me but wasn’t it a strange thing to do? Stabbing a box which they knew contained their dad’s books?

What they were doing was clearly unsafe. They were using a screwdriver in an unsafe way. If one of them had injured themselves, questions would be asked about the supervision.

If your kids are using screwdrivers dangerously or to damage things, put the screwdrivers in a locked toolbox.

They might respond well to some clearer boundaries, which could make things easier all round.

I think it's perfectly healthy and safe for 8-year-olds to have (supervised) access to knives or screwdrivers or whatever. My DD is 9, and the bleach lives by the loo, and I haven't given it a second thought.

But if you do these sensible and healthy things with your children, you have to accept that the minor consequence is that sometimes they will cause more damage than they would if you wrapped them in cotton wool.

Sometimes they will accidentally cut themselves making salad, even though you're right there, and you'll put a plaster on it and it'll be fine.

Sometimes (rarely) you'll discover they are less sensible than you hoped, or more naughty than you hoped, and they've done something like nick a knife out of the kitchen to cut sticks in the garden (DD, last week), or, like you, they're stabbing holes in a box of books with a screwdriver.

It's fine to be cross and to explain to them why you're upset (though I think the punishment is weird). It's not fine to act as if this isn't a natural consequence of the way you choose to parent. You need to be able to frame it that way. 'Look, you have the freedom to be in the garage without me, but you need to switch your brains on and not damage mine or your dad's things!'

You need to raise your expectations! They aren’t babies, and they aren’t being sent down the pits. Making their own beds and a simple meal isn’t “doing so much for themselves”. There’s no reason NT 8 year olds can’t do these things.

You're going OTT with multiple punishments . 1 is enough .

Not read the full thread, but have read op's. I think thats a lot for 1 thing (I am very precious over my books for reference)
I just asked ds (7) so slightly younger, if he was to stab a cardboard box with a screw driver would he expect whatever is in there to get damaged. He said no, because they're in the box.

I'm not sure at their age they would "get" that there's further damage beyond the holes. 1 single punishment would have been enough, I think the no cake is best, although there's a delay between event and consequence. The chores could be used to "earn" some of the money back to replace the books?

It’s interesting how many people are saying your punishment is very severe for the incident and yet you still think you aren’t punishing them enough.

Sleep is a basic human need and not something which should be used as a punishment.

Hi Sarah yeah you know what, you're spot on and I just had that chat with them.

We have now said they lose screentime for a week as previously. They can go to the bakesale if they behave themselves between now and then.

But mostly, I asked them to look at Daddy's books and imagine it was their Percy Jackson collection, and how would they feel.

I said I trusted them more than some kids got trusted, and it was sad they broke that trust.

Now they are on GirlTwin's bed with a whole stack of Dogman books laughing like loons, so I don't think anyone needs to worry about them too much!

No, at the start of the thread I said then. Then, I had a think based on the responses.

Eh? Going to your room early is not using sleep as a punishment. I am not going to cast a spell on them to make them sleep 😆 it is just going upstairs early.

In any case, I've revisited as above.

I think the punishment is fine and teaches a valuable lesson about other people possessions.

They knew they were doing somethi g they shouldnt.
I think you handled it well

The knife and bleach thing is weird though they are 8 they are going to "do experiments to see what happens"