How to handle 8yos doing something really naughty

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

My 8yo twins are high energy but essentially good kids. BoyTwin especially is responsible and sensible. GirlTwin can be cheeky but basically, they can both be trusted to go to bed on time, go for a short walk on their own, make a simple dinner with adult supervision.

So I was really shocked today when I heard them giggling together in the garage, put my head round the door to look - and found they had climbed and got a screwdriver and were repeatedly stabbing it into the side of an old box of books we have in there.

Some of the books are too damaged to read again. Several are presents I bought DH years back so have some sentimental value.

I am honestly shocked. I gave them a massive telling off and asked them to do a chore taking care of our house (weeding). They will not be able to buy a cake at the school bake sale on Tues, and they have lost any screen time for a week, and will have early bedtimes for 1w.

I am really sad. Our kids do silly or daft things but never something deliberately destroying someone else's property.

Would you feel the same? How would you handle it?

I suspect they weren't thinking about the fact they were damaging the contents of the box, just enjoying the sensation of stabbing the box. Your issuing multiple punishments is quite harsh - maybe just the chore would have been enough?
It's easy to overreact when children do something unexpected. Maybe show them the damage and explain why you were so upset. They sound like the sort of children to understand and apologise and then you can all move on.

I mean mine are younger so maybe I’m misunderstanding, but were they not just having fun poking holes in a cardboard box bro realising there’s stuff inside that could get damaged rather than going out of their way to destroy belongings?

The long drawn out punishments seem beyond something that will mean much to an 8 year old imo, a single thing close the event is generally more effective. I don’t think I would ever really do a week long drawn out punishment but that’s me and my kids, not yours so what other people would do doesn’t necessarily matter.

If I am honest it does not feel harsh enough, but fair point - I am posting for thoughts!

The damage is £100s if we were to replace the books and they laughed when "caught". That did make me really angry.

We have 3 kids and at this age, I need to be able to leave them in the same room as a knife/ bleach / etc without worrying they will try to damage something.

Did they know the box was full of expensive books? I think your punishments are far too harsh.

I think a telling off and being made to do the weeding is more than enough for 8 year olds. Yes, they shouldn’t have been stabbing at a box but I’m assuming they had no idea what was in it and didn’t damage the books deliberately. If the books are that precious why were they in the garage and not on a book shelf?

I also suspect the “laughing” when caught was nervousness induced, not malicious.

I think it’s really important to know why they were doing it, and to show them your deep upset.

if they are generally good kids, your being genuinely upset will affect them more than a punishment.

And understanding why will both help you avoid similar occurrences and suggest natural consequences. Did they do it with an intent to destroy things you valued? Then that is a) worrying but b) the natural consequence is for them to lose access to something they value. Did they do it because they were bored? The natural consequence is keeping them busy with chores to avoid boredom. Did they do it because they wanted the forbidden tools? Natural consequence of them not being trustable with tools is removal of tools they find useful but are dangerous - replace their cutlery or scissors etc with the ‘baby, safe’ versions they have outgrown, or remove a privilege that involves you trusting them to eg go to the shops, allowed to walk unaccompanied somewhere etc.

@LilacDrift and @Honeyhonay yes they about the books.

The box was down because DH had been looking out a Harry Potter book for BoyTwin that morning. They had gone through the box together to check if the HP book was in there, and DH had explained no, it wasn't because that box was the one full of Daddy's books that were being kept safe. The box was then left on a low shelf as DH got called to do something else.

Do people not agree that a generally sensible 8yo should anticipate that stabbing through the side of a box of books would cause damage?

It isn’t about the value of the books though, but rather what their comprehension would have been of what they were doing. The multiple punishments seems to be an indication of your hurt and upset at the sentimental value of what they actually damaged, which is disproportionate to the actual act.

This, it was clearly an accident by them being a bit silly/naughty not deliberately damaging your precious possessions. I think you’ve been a dick head parent by removing the bake sale and the punishments dragging on a week, you are taking your own upset out on them.

It’s prob like bubble wrap or the grey stuff for flower arranging (about that age I would squish up my mums flower stuff and she was so cross!) I think it’s just a sensory thing . Obviously speak to them about the danger aspect of things like screwdrivers etc but I don’t think this was deliberate vandalism of books .

No I don’t think an 8 year old would think stabbing a box with a screwdriver would damage things, they probably just thought it was a silly, fun game. That’s what children do I’m afraid. You explain to them what’s happened and how upset you are and give a consequence and then move on. Unfortunately it’s just part and parcel of having kids that things get damaged.

They need to learn about causing pain to other people and experience consequences for that. It isn't fashionable to punish for thoughtless cruelty now but there's also a growing difficulty with young people being unable to form friendships and romantic connections as they get older. There is a connection.

They're 8 not 2. Of course they knew. This is a moment to make sure they can't skim over the emotional link between what they did and the pain they caused.

Okay I will have a think.

To the poster who said about natural consequences - yes that is what I was going for, you destroyed that cost money so now we don't have money for a cake - type of logic.

Thanks for the reflections - except the poster who called me a dickhead. Seriously, this is a parenting website. We're all facing challenges. There's just no need to talk to someone like that. We're all figuring stuff out.

Why are you so desperate to remove the bake sale? Presumably that will embarrass them in front of their friends and is quite far removed from the “crime”. You’ve already made them do an extra chore, I’d be reiterating to them how upset you are and how even though they may have thought it was fun they know not to play with screwdrivers and now they have damaged your things and you and daddy are very upset, how would they feel if you damaged their things etc. if they were otherwise good kids I would really just let this go even though I know it’s upsetting.

No I don’t think an 8 year old would think stabbing a box with a screwdriver would damage things

The box was not theirs to play with and they knew it wasn't.

And they could see the stabbing was damaging the box, couldn't they? BoyTwin knew there were books inside. What did he think the stabbing would do to them?

8 is old enough to respect other people's belongings and to be capable of understanding that if you do X, Y will happen.

I disagree with most, I think at 8 they're old enough to understand that shovijgva screwedriver into a book repeatedly is going to cause damage. they'd have felt the screw driver hit something hard so knew they were connecting with the box.

however I think you need to talk to them and work out why. you say you found them, and they laughed. laughed when you said what are you doing? or when you opened the box and said the stuff was damaged? or when you gave them a punishment? laughing at you or the damage would warrant a consequence on its own.

I do think tho that a chore, losing a treat at the fair (when theyll see sibling getting one) plus early nights and no screen for a whole week is disproportionate to their intention.

it does sound like they need more supervision thom. how long were they alone in the garage? how long are these walks they go on alone and to where?

To the poster who said about natural consequences - yes that is what I was going for, you destroyed that cost money so now we don't have money for a cake - type of logic.

That doesn’t actually make sense though, unless you’re planning to go out and immediately replace all the damaged books…? If not, then it’s sad the books are damaged, but it hasn’t actually affected your immediate financial position at all. You weren’t planning on selling them, I assume?

Children have no comprehension of the value of things at that age, even more so nowadays where cash is used so little. Your punishments seem far too harsh.

@SleepingStandingUp yes these are good points for me to think about.....

I guess, it's a balance between addressing the intention (almost certainly not malicious) v seeing that 8yo is old enough to start appreciating what it means if you damage something.

Anyhow, thanks. It is interesting that most people think the punishments are too much. I will sit with that for a bit - I am still not sure I agree, but I will have a think.

they wouldn't understand the financial cost, but my 6 year old twins know if they damage something of mine, I'll be sad. that doesn't preclude them from doing stupid stuff sometimes, but if they realise what they'd done had upset me, they'd be sad.
depending on the circs around laughing at op, that's actually potentially worse than causing the damage. you hurt someone, even accidentally, you say sorry. especially accidentally cos you didn't mean to do anything.

One misbehaviour. One punishment.

Ideally something that is linked to the misbehaviour - helping to repair the damage or paying a token amount towards it with their own money.

They are too young to be left with a knife or bleach. They are only eight years old.

I feel you need to read up on modern parenting norms and child development.

A social worker would not think you can leave an 8yo with bleach, they would expect it to be out of reach.