We can't cope with our 17yo son's behavior

[mumoa]

We are very distressed because we can't cope with our son (17 yo, A levels student). Although his behavior isn't always the best, we've had some good times. However, in recent months, things have gotten worse. Now he says he doesn't want a relationship with us anymore, so he won't speak to us.He spends all day in his bedroom, on his phone or playing guitar.He doesn't clean his bedroom, he doesn't help around the house, sometimes he goes to the gym, but he doesn't tell us; he just grabs his things and leaves, although sometimes he sends us a text asking us to come pick him up.If we tell him to clean his room, to look up information about universities, or to study for his theoric driving test, he says we stress him out and that he hates us for it. His plan is to continue not speaking to us or doing anything, but that we continue taking him to and from school, giving him money when he goes out with his friends, and (according to him) fulfilling all our other obligations as parents. We don't know how to have a good relationship with him or how to communicate without him yelling at us and slamming doors.I should add that he only behaves this way with us; his teachers, his friends' parents, etc., have always said he's polite and kind.Thank you for reading all this. Could you please give us your opinions? What could we do?

Sounds like you need to back off him and also set some boundaries.

At that age, I never told my DSs what they needed to be doing. It was up to them. They were young adults.

But if they’d been disrespectful (e.g. refusing to speak over a long period), then I’d make it clear that was unacceptable. They were also mucking in with cooking, grocery shopping and housework at that age.

If it helps, IME when kids are late teens you need to view them as adult sharers. You wouldn’t tell a housemate to sort out their driving test or look for unis. But you would say it’s not acceptable if they don’t speak to you or do their fair share of housework.

Also re-reading your op remeber he is not a bad person.

Is he being a dick to you.... yes he is.... is he behaving in a way which is rude ungrateful... absolutely. But hes not a bad person. Hes trying to renegotiate your realtionship as equal adults and ( because hes 17) completely fucking it up.

All being well youll look back in a few years and laugh about it together.

Don’t be daft. Kick him out.

you don’t have kids do you @Dollymylove

I think dealing with door slamming, laziness and insults by kicking him out shows an incredible lack of maturity on the parents' part. Like with like isn't a way to model adult behaviour!
It is hard to transition from the micro management DC need as children to the space they need as older teens..he has actually told you that you stress him out.
Back right off the reminders about tidying, study, theory test etc I know that is hard because you want him to do well and be able to drive. But he needs agency. And to be allowed to see the consequences of his actions. Even to fail.
In return you ask him to be respectful, he asks for not demands lifts, and pulls his weight, in whatever way you would like that to be in communal living areas.
The messy bedroom is him being in control of one small area of his life. It sounds like he needs this to feel some agency.
I often said to my teen DC that I was learning on the job. I had never been the mother of teenagers before and wasnt sure what I was doing. That I was going to get things wrong and annoy them, but i was trying my best.
I was not treated like a doormat as a result!!!

I agree. Drop the rope. Stop chivying him about the things you feel he needs to get on with... There are natural consequences to not taking driving theory tests (although he's probably practicing on his phone and will ace it).

He is still going to school. He still has friends. He is still going to the gym and playing the guitar. This is a phase and he will grow out of it. Pick your arguments and let everything else go. Treat him with respect and kindness. Ignore the quick to ignite behaviour. I bet you notice a difference fairly quickly.

I would speak to his school and let them know what’s going on at home and to find out if anything has happened at school first of all.
All teenager push boundaries but I think he’s gone beyond it really.
Being a parent you give him a roof and his meals and unconditional love. However if he is giving you ultimatums such as not speaking to you etc, then your conditions are no lifts, no more handouts. I actually think he sounds deeply unhappy and that’s why I would involve the school for help.

Who pays for his gym membership?

I agree with PPs, keep talking to him, ask if he wants to eat with you, ignore his untidy room.
However, if he doesn’t want a relationship with you, I’d change the WiFi password, stop the lifts, stop paying for his phone etc. He can get an after school/weekend job and pay for these things himself. I might think about him contributing to food bills too (even just a token).

He doesn’t need to tell you when he goes to the gym

but so what if he calls to ask for a lift back. You say… no, make your own way back my boy!

Come on op… parent up

Some over-the-top responses here.
Ignore the messy room.
Ignore the driving theory test.
Ignore the uni applications.
Ignore his going to the gym without telling you (but no need to pick him up)

This is too far the other way.

In what way?
why can’t he live in a messy room?
why shouldn’t he fail his theory test?
why should he apply for university?
why does a 17-year-old need to say he’s off to the gym?

It all seems very obvious to me. He gets the natural consequences of his choices and actions.

my son is very messy naturally but I don’t want my home like this. Respect. So we compromise. He keeps vague tidy. Not how I want it but it’s something.

Driving? The parents are paying. So if he fails… wasted money

uni apps? Fine if you don’t give a hoot and able to chill but most parents simply couldn’t watch their child not going something that is really going to impact their child very negatively. So to “ignore” ? Nah. To try a different approach? Yes

and i have said twice that of course he doesn’t need to tell his folks he’s going to the gym!!

Which is why I think OP needs to look at why this behaviour has happened. Was parenting too permissive, was it too controlling? If it can be addressed then it can be fixed. I also would never have behaved like this because my parents set a behaviour expectation from a young age, which I did for my own kids (two boys and never experienced this particular dynamic). But no, kicking him out without getting to the bottom of it isn’t the best option.

As another poster asked, do you have kids @Dollymylove

His room- his choice. Very normal for teens to be messy. Communal spaces are different.

How do you know the parents are paying? My teens paid for themselves.

Uni applications- I left that to my teen - to decide if she wanted to go, and the applications. She now has a first from UCL after taking a year out and working.

It’s not about not giving a hoot. It’s about knowing what’s really important.

Agreed. Teenagers have a variety of influences. She’s not a terrible parent just because boundaries are being pushed. But she does need to work out what pushing those boundaries back, looks like.

You don’t think the op might have
Mentioned he’s working?

If he’s paying for it… sure his prerogative to piss it up the wall

room - compromise. Respect for home. Also helping him for adapting to living away from home. Not actually in his interest to be able to live without any consideration.

uni apps - what a lovely story about your fabulously self motivated daughter. Cheers for that.

I think you have dealt with that very well. Calm, clear but still loving.

I think it’s unspeakably rude to leave the house without saying goodbye. The other stuff I would care less about. One of my dc is very messy - I just shut the door. It’s not worth falling out over. Driving theory - I paid for one test - one of my dc failed through lack of preparation and paid for his own resit. Applying for uni when you don’t want to go is pointless and not worth having a battle over. He sounds like a massive baby who would mess it up so going straight into work or taking a gap year is probably the better option. I do “nice” things like laundry and lifts because we are family and kind to each other. I wouldn’t do it if I was getting a load of snark back because I’m not a doormat and I would just stop dead (unless he is y13 - then I would stop after last exam tbh). He has absolutely no boundaries and doesn’t see you as human beings - drop the rope. I would absolutely not be funding his phone and gym at his age when he’s being a rude little prick. He is working age - he should buy his own niceties (I do think he should be fed and housed until after a-levels finish). lol at him asking for money to go out with friends like he’s 12 years old.

Agree. I didn’t even enter my DS’s rooms at 17. From odd chats at the door, DS2’s was like a landfill site at one point. But he had to live in it, not me. I never told him to clean it up nor did it for him. Just like I wouldn’t for a housemate. Now (20) he keeps it v tidy. Because he’s matured and wants it to look good.

With teens, it’s like Aesops North Wind & Sun. Asking/telling is usually counter-productive. The more you nag, they’ll resist. Just leave them to it and they do it of their own accord. You won’t be there to nag when they move out. So the sooner they learn to be self-motivated the better. I don’t want to send men out into the world who have to be managed by a woman.

my son is very messy naturally but I don’t want my home like this. Respect. So we compromise. He keeps vague tidy. Not how I want it but it’s something.
But it's his room so why do you need to go into it? If he keeps the door closed, how do you even see the mess. Respect works both ways. If he wants to live in a mess (if just a mess and not actually unhygienic) why can't you respect that?

Driving? The parents are paying. So if he fails… wasted money
If you're happy to pay for driving lessons, then pay for them. Set a limit (e.g. 1 theory test, 1 practical test, x number of lessons) if you want.
The pass rate for the theory test is under 50%. That's not all down to people not working hard enough. So he might revise and still fail (my DS failed by 1 mark when he took it for the first time). Is that still a waste of money? If he's done no revision and knows he's likely to fail, he can simply move his test date. Why is he not revising? Does he have too many other things on? He's not obliged to take his theory test now. He can cancel it or move the date.

uni apps? Fine if you don’t give a hoot and able to chill but most parents simply couldn’t watch their child not going something that is really going to impact their child very negatively.
Forcing a child that isn't interesting in uni to apply is a huge waste of money and likely to impact their child negatively.
He doesn't have to apply to uni. And he certainly doesn't need to look at university applications now (assuming he is in Year 12, he has another 6 months even if he wants to go straight after he finishes sixth form. Or he could even wait for Clearing). But if he wants a year or so to think about what he does want to do then he needs a constructive plan that is not just hang around the house. That's an adult discussion. Telling him he needs to go and do them is treating him like a child. No wonder he dislikes it.

I think it’s time to sit down and have an adult conversation.

he is behaving badly but im imagining from his side he probably sees you as nagging and treating him like a kid.

i would let the untidy bedroom go, it’s upto him to look at university places and to decide if he wants to revise for his theory. If he fails it’s on him.

i would expect him to tell you where he is going. Does he have a part time job?

it is a difficult age, they want to be adults so then they need to behave like one and you possibly need to reframe your thoughts around him. Are you treating him like he is 12, let him take some responsibility.

but I would make it clear that you won’t tolerate rudeness, that’s not an adult way to behave and that you would like him to let you know when he’s leaving the house -that’s just polite.

Stop the money, lifts and driving lessons, cleaning up, laundry, cooking for him etc. Ungrateful little shit.

that you would like him to let you know when he’s leaving the house -that’s just polite.

I don't know if it helps but I had a conversation with my son when he was about 19. He said that he'd suddenly realised when I'd asked him to say good bye when I left the house it was simply that I wanted to make a human connection (and know he hadn't collapsed in his room), and that when I asked him where he was going I was just being interested and he was not obliged to tell me. At age 16/17 he thought I was being controlling so refused to engage on "principle". I wish I'd appreciated this when he was 16/17, and I wonder if something similar is going on here.

He might be 17 years old in years but emotionally he is much younger. He is very immature for those years.
I am not meaning to be harsh but what on earth are you doing, unless you live somewhere completely remote, doing picking up a 17 year old ? He can make his own way to a gym he can make it back. He probably feels slightly ashamed asking. He is nearly an adult.
That is the sort of thing to change.

Mine have always said goodbye when they go out. Eldest shouts it before slamming the door 🙄 IMHO, you should always say goodbye as you never know what life has in store.

I usually ask where they’re off to (geographically, not who with or exactly where). I’ve always explained I’ve lived in a lot of shared places (including before mobile phones) and we always told each other where we were off to and when we were likely to be back - as a safety measure. Then, if you don’t turn up, people know when and where to start looking for you. They get it. I do the same with them.