Urgent advice- DD refused to go in to primary school this morning due to threats of violence

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Hi All,

This is a bit urgent because we have parents evening tonight so this will definitely need to be addressed.

DD 8 and 11 joined a new school last year due to a move. DD8 has had problems with girls being mean from day 1 which came to a head 4 weeks ago when one child was particularly nasty and we had to get the teachers involved.

All has calmed down for her and she’s made a good friend but a week later everything kicked off for DD11.

DD11 has had some ups and downs with friends (they seem to fall out with each other a lot!) but was fairly settled. She had a birthday party 3 weeks ago and one girl didn’t show up after confirming she was coming because they’d had a fall out the week before.

The other girls had a great time and DD best friend was there. Two days later they went back to school and her best friend, another girl and the girl who didn’t attend started leaving DD out at playtime and then telling her they “hated” her. The one that didn’t attend the party is much bigger than DD (they all are) and has started pushing her around in PE and at okay times. Ex-best friends has started joining in and sent her a note saying she hates her.

DD spoke to the teacher just over a week ago and admitted that when they’ve been abusive she’s told them to shut up or has occasionally pushed them back, but hasn’t started the behaviour. All girls agreed when asked by the teacher.

Teacher corners me at pick up, quite agitated, and said that because DD has occasionally pushed back or answered back it’s tit for tat and definitely not bullying. She emphasised that these girls are “lovely”.

In the week and a half since then it’s escalated. The girls have been saying DD is “disgusting”, and have compared her to boys and said she “stinks” (she’s very clean). Some pushing and shoving in PE led to them pushing her to the ground yesterday and one threatening to fight her. Lots of children witnessed this apparently and boys and girls stepped in to defend DD with others being shoved and one girl being told her “mum hates her” to which she burst in to tears.

Last night we emailed the Head expressing concerns regarding safety and requesting an urgent meeting.

This morning DD was very agitated about what might happen today and apparently got very upset at drop off and was too terrified to get out of the car. DP decided to take her home and informed Reception who acknowledged they had received the email. We’ve never let the children stay off for anything other than sickness before.

We have parents evening tonight so looking for advice on approaches for this. How cross would you be?

The teacher seemed great and DD loved her but unfortunately has been fairly dismissive so far and told us she would “never reprimanded the children for this type of behaviour” because she likes the children to be able to approach her about issues.

For context, DD is high achieving and has been chosen for a “elite” program at the secondary she’ll go to and is currently attending after school secondary school lessons each week because of this.

What! This is insane!

As a teacher, I’m ashamed of the way the teacher has acted. How biased & unprofessional!
I would book a Head meeting, if one is not available go to the Governors. Staff have a duty of care towards ALL children & this is not being met, in fact staff are alienating your daughter and that is shocking. Ask to see their bullying policy, go through it & highlight all the points that they haven’t met, write in your examples next to it. Take that to the Head/Governors meeting & explain calmly that they are failing in their duties, so either they U-turn swiftly & act accordingly or they will loose two students from their school & you will be happy enough to go to the media with your concerns!!

Is there an option to move schools OP? I know this might be a bit disruptive, particularly for your eldest just before secondary, but staying at this school is disruptive. I’ve never heard anything so unprofessional as what you’ve described, so I don’t think another school would likely behave in the same way. It might give her a chance to make a new set of friends prior to secondary? Your younger daughter doesn’t seem particularly happy either, and if this is what you have to look forward to should friendship issues arise for her too, I think you might be quite reasonable to cut your losses with this school. However, I’m aware things aren’t always as easy as moving schools if there aren’t any others suitable etc.
Could you escalate the teachers behaviour to the governors?

I'd put in a complaint about that teacher as she is playing favourites and bullying your daughter.

I'd keep her off indefinitely until they sort the bullying issues. They'll soon address it when it starts affecting their attendance numbers.

This is appalling and reads like the teacher is scared of the 'lovely' girls parents. Escalate immediately through the schools complaints procedure, making sure everything is documented in writing. And very plainly tell the teacher to stop singing the praises of your daughter's bullies to you.

Make it clear that if the issue isn't fully resolved once you have followed all steps of the schools internal complaints procedure, you will be making a report directly to OFSTED.

The teacher sounds very weak. My DD is experiencing similar and has a similar teacher, the kids seem to be running riot in her care.

The ring-leader needs to be dealt with. It's not rocket science.

Is your DD due to be at secondary with any of them? If not, I would consider pulling her out of school for the rest of the year.

What does the bullying policy say and are they applying it? If they are not applying it why not. If you go in factually with what has happened and how it meets the threshold for bullying then they need to apply their own policy - I would expect them to call the parents as well as a few other things. I’d imagine. Restorative practice is usually in there but schools do it badly by forcing children to apologise and be friends…

id be inclined to keep her off until a proper plan is in place. See if your DD can access Elsa to help build her confidence back. I hope you are all ok

I don't remember this kind of parents' involvement when I was at school. We kind of solved our problems between ourselves. Sure, there were falling outs etc. But it's part of life later as well, isn't it? We can't shield our kids from every discomfort. There will be unpleasant people in their lives later as well. It's better to learn how to deal with them at school rather than letting parents save them every time and then having panic attacks at work when things get tough.

Yep and all was fine forever and ever. No one from in your days was every subject to bullying and were traumatised for life. 🙄
The way we learn as kids how to deal with "unpleasant" (= abusive) behaviour is by having trusted adults stand up for us, showing us how to stand up for ourselves, and dealing with the perpetrators accordingly.

It's quite telling than none of the kids reported the pushing over incident to staff. What does that tell you? It tells you that all the kids know it's pointless.

Secondary governor and parent of a kid bullied at primary here...

Firstly if there is ANY possibility of moving her school NOW just do it. She's being bullied-and by a teacher no less. That sadly is not going to change at this stage. She has no friends its unsettling her academics what is she gaining from this school?

Tall to the secondary. Make it clear to them what has happened (why you are moving her if that is possible) and that they need to separate her from them next year. You need to talk to the head of year not rely on this monster of a teacher to pass on her mean girl thoughts as she will.

Once your dd is out of there if possible, I would absolutely raise a complaint. This teacher is not fit to teach if that is her attitude to an 11yr old in distress. The head cannot refuse to meet with you - especially as I'm thinking its a small school if a 9yr old is getting the same teacher an 11yr old.does so there is no mega structure - if you ask formally using the complaint procedure- which will be on their website- if not just ask. And follow it. To the letter!

Get her out. And then keep a very strong eye on the younger one.

This is terrible. Please done send your dd on the residential.

are there any other school nearby that you can move your youngest to for September? I wouldn’t keep her there

I don't know what the rules are in England but in Scotland you can take out an interdict against a child who is bullying your child. There needs to be three incidents before you can do this though. However this stops the school dismissing your feelings over what is going on because its basically a court order saying the bullying children need to stay away.

Schools and councils don't like it because it means they have to take things seriously and there is real consequences if they don't.

Thank you!

This school is trying to make us sound hysterical so just to sense check- would a secondary take this seriously if we raised it now?

We don’t want to set a precedence at the new school that we’re overbearing parents.

Could you report to Ofsted with the words “failure (of the school) to protect (your daughter)”
This is shit and I am sorry it’s happening. Better to go all out now than before it gets to secondary school.

And protecting your daughter is not hysterical. They are trying to shut you up.
Now is the time to be the tiger parent.

I was bullied throughout school by a succession of different girls. All the usual things, whispering, exclusion, hair pulling, humiliation. Once on my birthday I was attacked by an older girl who hardly knew me but took a dislike.
I never told a soul. Not a teacher or my parents. I was in my 50s when I mentioned to my mother about being beaten up at school and she was aghast that she never knew. That's what happens when children solve their own problems.
None of that helped me deal with unpleasant people in later life.

One of the obligations on a school is to provide a safe, nurturing, learning environment. It’s certainly not safe, provides no encouragement and is not conducive to learning or personal development. Do follow the advice given by @LittleOwl153. Both your daughters need moving somewhere they can thrive rather than endure the days. The secondary school will definitely appreciate being given this information and will ensure your daughter is in a different form.

my daughter experienced similar in year 5. It was a group of girls and they had horrific fallings out.
The teacher kept saying that it was between them and was in the playground, so not the classroom, and would not deal with it at all.
In July of year 5 dd told me that she wanted to kill herself because of the bullying at school.
When we went back to school in September, new teacher, I went in and asked for a meeting, I explained what had happened and that by the year's end dd was talking about killing herself.
I knew that dd was probably as involved as the other girls, it wasn't all against her, but the lack of any sort of accountability or help form the teacher with the messy friendships had allowed it to spiral and escalate. It was a real Lord of the Flies situation.

The new teacher was fab, kept a firm control of the class, and made a point of taking their concerns seriously. Within a couple of weeks they had all settled down and things improved dramatically.

I would not allow dd8 to go into this woman's class.
I would be putting formal complaints in to the school about her behaviour, document everything, every interaction everything.
If you talk with her at pickup, follow it up with an email - thank you for our conversation at pick up, I would just like to verify that you told us to do xxx and that you were not prepared to do yyy.

This sounds like an appalling situation. Look at the school policies on bullying/raise issues/complaints etc and follow these to the letter when addressing the school.
If the school won't address the issues, put a complaint to the governors.
Keep fighting your DDs corner.
You may have to consider moving your children, particularly if a teacher is involved in covering up/not dealing with bullies etc
FWIW my children suffer at times from their teachers from having parents who raise issues and call things out. (Children are same age as yours). We are getting our eldest through Y6 best we can and are hoping a teacher change with our youngest will help there.

Maybe ask for contact details of the Governors? There should be a designated one for safeguarding (which the school seem to not be managing at all well). Very shocked by the teacher’s behaviour. I wouldn’t want to have her teach another child of mine - can your younger daughter switch classes?
I would also raise concern about the apparent poor quality of teaching and ask how that is going to be addressed.
You’ve given the school opportunities- but they seem like one of those ‘we don’t have bullying issues here’ types 🙄. Any other schools around for your younger one? Not sure you will feel able to trust this school going forwards.

Your DD is academic. They'll want her good SATs results. If this was my daughter I would pull her out. Try to find another school or if at all possible home school for one term. Your poor daughter. Speak to the senior school they won't want these girls in the sane form group as her if you tell they what's happened.

Years ago (obviously) I was physically attacked at primary school defending a friend from some younger children. The school did nothing. My dad spoke to the police who couldn't get involved because the children were too young but would have done. Much more recently, the police got involved with nasty messages sent between y6 girls at my son's primary. Parents and specific girls were spoken to in their homes and the police spoke to everyone.

I would escalate to the Governors and ask for a review. But if she's assaulted or written to like that again I would call 111.

Thanks everyone.

We had a call with a close friend yesterday who’s a secondary school teacher. She went through their bullying policy which she described as worrying and very sparse.

It basically says that bullying doesn’t really exist (which may explain their approach so far) but it does give a couple of examples of what they would describe as bullying which includes repeated negative behaviour by one or more children and threats of violence.

She’s advised to treat this like an issue in business (we both work corporate). We could legitimately raise a complaint with the governors about this teacher but she understands our concerns about knock on effects to our youngest daughter, so she proposed we write to them to ask for a summery of their understanding of what’s happened, how they’ve addressed it, and how their actions reflect their policies. She said to also state that certain comments in a recent discussions with the teacher have affected our daughter and so going forward we would appreciate all discussions to be conducted away from her.

She advised to go in softly with the first email but when we get their account go back in harder questioning appropriateness of their actions, stating our understanding that DD has now been sanctioned leading to isolation and questioning how this works day to day, how does it safeguard her wellbeing and what mediation steps are planned as this isn’t a feasible long term plan.

We both went to pick up en force yesterday . One of the mothers tried to stare me down but I couldn’t care less. DD came out happy, said there had been no issues and during the last playtime all the kids had played together and they’d had fun. It seems that they allow them to play with each other but if one of them is mean to her it’s her fault because she shouldn’t have been playing with them. The teacher didn’t speak to us but half heartedly shouted “well done today DD” across the playground as if it’s our child having to work on herself not the bullies.!

Friend also said to contact the secondary. She warned we would look slightly nuts but her staff would appreciate the heads up if it was them.

DD told us there was another boy who is obviously bullied by all the boys in her year and nothing’s done about it. He recently told the girls during a game that DD was the kindest person in the school because she was the only one that talked to him and was nice to him( I suggested she befriend him because it won’t hurt to have a friend that’s a boy- apparently he shouts a lot and jumps on people but I suggested maybe he’d calm down once he had a friend).

Hi All, thanks for your advice last time. We’ve had more incidences with the school so I’ve started a new post below:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5520016-can-we-withdraw-dd11-from-school-before-sats-over-bullying-concerns