Urgent advice- DD refused to go in to primary school this morning due to threats of violence

[Springged]

Hi All,

This is a bit urgent because we have parents evening tonight so this will definitely need to be addressed.

DD 8 and 11 joined a new school last year due to a move. DD8 has had problems with girls being mean from day 1 which came to a head 4 weeks ago when one child was particularly nasty and we had to get the teachers involved.

All has calmed down for her and she’s made a good friend but a week later everything kicked off for DD11.

DD11 has had some ups and downs with friends (they seem to fall out with each other a lot!) but was fairly settled. She had a birthday party 3 weeks ago and one girl didn’t show up after confirming she was coming because they’d had a fall out the week before.

The other girls had a great time and DD best friend was there. Two days later they went back to school and her best friend, another girl and the girl who didn’t attend started leaving DD out at playtime and then telling her they “hated” her. The one that didn’t attend the party is much bigger than DD (they all are) and has started pushing her around in PE and at okay times. Ex-best friends has started joining in and sent her a note saying she hates her.

DD spoke to the teacher just over a week ago and admitted that when they’ve been abusive she’s told them to shut up or has occasionally pushed them back, but hasn’t started the behaviour. All girls agreed when asked by the teacher.

Teacher corners me at pick up, quite agitated, and said that because DD has occasionally pushed back or answered back it’s tit for tat and definitely not bullying. She emphasised that these girls are “lovely”.

In the week and a half since then it’s escalated. The girls have been saying DD is “disgusting”, and have compared her to boys and said she “stinks” (she’s very clean). Some pushing and shoving in PE led to them pushing her to the ground yesterday and one threatening to fight her. Lots of children witnessed this apparently and boys and girls stepped in to defend DD with others being shoved and one girl being told her “mum hates her” to which she burst in to tears.

Last night we emailed the Head expressing concerns regarding safety and requesting an urgent meeting.

This morning DD was very agitated about what might happen today and apparently got very upset at drop off and was too terrified to get out of the car. DP decided to take her home and informed Reception who acknowledged they had received the email. We’ve never let the children stay off for anything other than sickness before.

We have parents evening tonight so looking for advice on approaches for this. How cross would you be?

The teacher seemed great and DD loved her but unfortunately has been fairly dismissive so far and told us she would “never reprimanded the children for this type of behaviour” because she likes the children to be able to approach her about issues.

For context, DD is high achieving and has been chosen for a “elite” program at the secondary she’ll go to and is currently attending after school secondary school lessons each week because of this.

Well I'd be furious, except for bearing in mind it might be tit for tat in general

Ultimately what is schools plan for securing your daughters safety, restorative approaches between the girls and addressing the girls behaviiour (all of them possibly including your daughter)

I would ask school to be more involved and to monitor and record every dispute/situation. It may well be tit for tat, but that doesn't make it any easier for your child who is hurting. However, you are only hearing one side of it and that is why the school need to monitor. The next step would be to have them separated during break and lunch times, with one of the two of them staying in with a friend, alternating daily or weekly.

Parents evening is not the moment for this. You will have a 5 min slot. Make a separate appointment for this

Unfortunately this. But you can mention that you will be coming in to see class teacher and head for a meeting. Phone today to make an appointment for such a meeting. Make sure the head teacher will be present, this has gone beyond the class teacher now as she has failed to address it.

So sorry your DD is having to put up with this. IME, the last year at primary school is always quite rocky. All of my DC were glad to leave their primary school and move up to a different secondary, away from the troublesome kids.

To be honest, parents evening will be pretty full on and time constrained. Usually, there are other teachers / HT around and not doing appointments, so maybe speak to one of them and try to arrange a meeting asap to get this dealt with.

I hope you are able to sort something soon.

Luckily she is all set for secondary school and your worst case scenario is keeping her home until KS2 SATs. It is possible the other girls are jealous about her being chosen for an elite programme and are bullying her for this. Sadly, kids and their parents can be extremely jealous, especially if you are relatively new arrivals in the area.

When you ring to make this appointment, you also ask for a copy of their Bullying and Harassment Policy together with a copy of their Complaints Policy... You are at Stage 2 of the Complaints Procedure as you have raised it with the class teacher. Follow the Complaints Procedure to the letter and explain that currently the school are failing to safeguard your child and you would like the DSL to be involved, too.

Thanks everyone. The Head called DP this afternoon (I was unfortunately in a meeting so haven’t had the full story yet).

The ringleader has denied pushing DD to the ground and has claimed she fell in to her (not verified by others). All kids admitted something had happened but none raised it with the teachers which the Head said is very concerning. Someone suggested someone was kicked but they didn’t get to the bottom of who did that and DD said she wasn’t aware of that happening.

She suggested they sit all the girls down again to encourage them to be friends but DP said it’s gone beyond that as they’ve already done this, so we want assurances she will be kept safe and the girls will be kept away from her. she said this was “one option” 🙄

We’ll concentrate on academics for parents evening and she suggested we have a meeting with the Head another time to address these issues.

They dont have to be 'friends', I think thats the wrong tack

They have to respect each other, not get in each others business basically.

No laying hands or anything on each other

I think that is a route that still needs to be done, restorative approaches do seem to work better.

Are the othe rparents involved, what are they doing about it all?

@likelysuspect the parents haven’t been told so DP made it clear that our position is that they should be told because the school is struggling to deal with it (and we would be mortified to find out this had been going on and we hadn’t been told).

We’re going to ask if the primary school has any influence on which forms the children are put in at secondary. They tend to work closely with the secondary on a lot of things so if they can separate them this would be our preference.

She suggested they sit all the girls down again to encourage them to be friends

Fuck me they are still saying this type of shit? How 80's

Firstly, just speak to the secondary school yourself about forms. No need to go through primary. Give the names of the children and say you do not want your DD to mix with these children.

Secondly, ask to speak to the head urgently. Put a timeline in an email labelled 'formal complaint about unresolved, ongoing bullying situation'.

This: The teacher seemed great and DD loved her but unfortunately has been fairly dismissive so far and told us she would “never reprimanded the children for this type of behaviour” because she likes the children to be able to approach her about issues. is unacceptable from the teacher and should be included in the complaint. The first responsibility of a teacher is pupil safety, it comes ahead of learning.

You need to tell the Headteacher that your daughter feels unsafe in school. The school haven't actually got to the bottom of what happened either. I know it can be difficult for staff to get to the bottom of situations, especially if there's varying accounts.

Rather than sitting all the girls down together, perhaps it would be better for the girls to be spoken to separately? Often in these circumstances, there's usually a ring-leader, who then encourages others to join in. The girls might be more inclined to be honest, if spoken to separately.

Your daughter needs to be kept separate from these girls or at the absolute least, an adult at lunchtime/break time keeps an eye on her.

We went to the parents evening this evening and have been left pretty frustrated.

The teacher said each of the children involved had been spoken to (no idea of together or individually) and there is “an account that differs” to my DD account of what happened. Very little information about what that account is but she did indicate that the ring leader had claimed DD pushed first. DD is adamant this isn’t true.

They also claimed everything had been lovely for the last week and it was such a shame this had come out of the blue so I corrected her on that and explained there had been incidences all week. She wasn’t aware because she’d not been available. She seems fairly certain of the account she believes before admitting she had no clue what my daughter’s account was and so she was ask her later in the week.

She claimed the girls had spent the day very upset but making it up to each other but DD8 said all the girls have been arguing and swearing at each other, and making each other cry all day.

She sang the praises of one of the girls so I asked if this child’s parents had been informed about the nasty notes she’d written to my DD prior to this and the incident the day before. She told me each of the girls’ parents had been spoken to multiple times before about bad behaviour.

The Head emailed us retracting the offer of a meeting and instead said there would be daily check ins with a TA. She also linked a support website for children with emotional issues citing “problems at home”. This was referring to a concern we raised with the school last year that our daughter was feeling stress. She seems to be implying that the incident arose from issues caused by our DD.

We’re pretty livid about this. They seem to be using previous concerns raised by us to dismiss what’s happened and push the blame on to DD, with no evidence that it’s linked.

Her ex-best fiend approached her at parents evening and we found out she told DD that the incident had nothing to do with her, she’s now her friend and will alternate her time between DD and the ring leader, and then tried to hug DD. DD said she didn’t say anything or hug her back and tried to move away. DD has no desire to spend time with her. The ringleader dragged the girl away saying “why are you talking to her? This is so boring”.

The teacher claims they’ll make sure tomorrow is “lovely” but she doesn’t seem to be aware of what’s going on in her classroom. She also said that they’ve all discussed and decided who DD should be friends with (DD was really pissed that they’d all discussed and decided this as if she had no choice in the matter).

She’s dreading going back tomorrow so we’ve told her to focus on some nice things- arranging a play date with one of the girls and doing something fun at the weekend.

We’ll respond to the Head when we’re less pissed off.

Hi,
I was just looking for some advice for my 12 year old son whose showing a few signs recently and I’m not sure if it’s normal/part of growing up or possibly something deeper

He has started to show a few behaviours i am not used to:

1: He has to have his own knife, fork, spoon. He will not use any cutlery or plate that’s been used by someone. I’ve had to order his own. I think it’s if he’s seen people use them it must trigger something. He will eat in a restaurant but this is at his homes. Yesterday he didn’t believe I gave him his own spoon and panicked going to the draw to make sure I’d used “his own”

2: He has to sit on the table seat/direction when he eats. He does the same at his other parents house. He doesn’t like looking at all the pictures facing him on the wall

3: There have also been a few increased signs of aggression. Boys will naturally fight but in the last 3-4 months there have been increasingly worrying outcomes; he held his 9 year old brothers heads under the bath water for about 4-6 seconds and also nipped and then pushed his step sister to the floor (which was even more surprising as that completely pushed beyond the blended family boundary

Was hoping for some advice and thank you

The school is doing a dismal job of handling this op. I would write to the head and way if you don't have a meeting, you'll have to escalate to the school governors.

@Pantheon they’ve handled it appallingly.

DD went back to school and had a check in with the teacher in the afternoon and told her everything had been fine. However she was clearly upset when she came out of school and DD8 told me she’d seen the three girls crowded around DD looking like they were being mean and DD walked away upset.

At bedtime she cried and said she had been trying to join in with them to be back in good terms. The ringleader upset one girls and then she turned to DD and told her she needed to leave because they only ever fall out when she’s there they all ganged up and told her to leave.

She’s didn’t tell the teacher because she doesn’t want the girls to “hate her even more” or call her a “snitch”.

The teacher had asked us to email her if DD told of any issues so I dropped her a quick note.

I did pick up yesterday and the teacher wanted a word. She said they’d had a “lovely conversation” and that I was mistaken. DD hadn’t been affected at all and DD thought I had exaggerated. DD was with us and looked mortified. I explained DD had been in tears and DD8 had seen something significant happening.

Teacher said they had all “collectively” agreed DD should leave because DD had been “banned” from playing with them (first we’d heard) and the children had been quite right to say what they had because DD “shouldn’t have been near them”. Also one of the girls is “wonderful” and had told the teachers the other girl was upset and so had done the right thing. I asked if she’d also told them DD was upset. No she hadn’t. Well that’s very selective then isn’t it?

I asked if she’d been banned had they stopped them playing together- no because it was so lovely to see them all together.

I asked if the girls had been spoken to about how they had spoken to to DD. No, but if DD was going to continue to “claim she is being bullied they would have to absolutely ban her from playing with or going near any of these children”. She then added that DD “accusations” had been relayed to their parents and then she turned DD and said “ and now, understandably their parents don’t want you to play with their daughters” .

DD began to cry so I told the teacher to stop, hugged DD and told her firmly that although the teacher was implying that this is her fault and she is being punished it was absolutely not her fault and it’s them who are banned from playing with her. Teacher got irate and said “I haven’t blamed her at all” so I stood up and faced her said “I’ve just had to listen to you tell her that what happened to her yesterday was her fault because she’d tried to make up with them. She’s trying to forgive them (one of the school values) because she’s a nice person and she’s being blamed for their bad behaviour.”.

She said, OK then we’ll ban her and there’s one girl in the class she can be friends with.

As a last act of absolutely terrible professionalism she then turned to DD and said she should get over all this bullying claims because once she goes to secondary school next year she “won’t get any support at all from staff if she accuses someone of bullying her”.

Appalling! I told DD that wasn’t true and we were going home.

Awful! And I couldn’t sleep feeling guilty thinking that I should have shouted the teacher down more and put a stop to it sooner.

DD has said she has no adults to go to now because “the teacher just wants to defend the other girls”.

We also then found out the teacher had gathered DD, her friend and the ring leader and made them sign “contracts”. DD says she won’t talk behind people’s backs, people don’t have to be her friend, she has to give people space and respect their opinions.

@Springged - wow! That is absolutely shocking!
However, having had 4 DC in state education it does not surprise me at all.

This is crazy @Springged I wouldn't bother talking to the teacher anymore and only talk to the head. And if no luck there, then escalate to the governors etc. Look at the school's anti bullying policy on its website as I doubt they are following it.

The executive head leaves at Easter and new interim head comes in after that (she was being shown around the school yesterday whilst the teacher tried to usher us out of the gate).

This teacher will, unfortunately, be DD8 teacher for the next years from September.

We had thought this was positive until the last few weeks (when we also received DD11 mock SATS results and she’s gone from exceeding in reading and maths to meeting in the time she’s been taught by her!).

DP is worried about creating a negative relationship with this teacher considering our youngest will be in her class.

DD11 is due to go on residential in a couple of months with these arseholes which is filling me with dread.

We had similar issues with our daughter at senior school level and nothing was done. With hindsight now I realise I should probably have got in touch with the board of governors or the local education authority, the schools try to cover up problems, they’re pathetic. I hope your daughters find peace, it is truly awful that they’re going through this.

Are there any other schools nearby?

No way would I be sending my DD on a residential with actual bullies and a teacher trying to cover up. The teacher clearly has a lot going on with change of leadership and is just trying to hush hush and survive herself. Most teachers just want to teach and go home and get through SATs etc and won’t make extra time to help with complex levels of bullying.

Personally, I would be visiting other schools. I have no idea what it is like in your area and whether it is a feeder for a secondary but where I am in London, they are desperate for funding and higher achievers and I would not be offering my kids up to this shitshow. I would be assessing my options for them.

Same with local GPs by the way. If they are rubbish and there are better options, you can change. They get funding for the full family, if they treat you badly, look elsehwere.

That teacher is an absolute shocker!

I'd be looking for other school options, they're completely ineffective and I would not put it past that teacher to treat your younger daughter badly.

Definite NO to the residential, the teacher cannot be trusted to keep your daughter safe.