Two year old DD doesn’t eat, doesn’t sleep and I’m losing my mind

[Doingshite]

I’m in a very low place at the moment so please don’t reply with those robust MN pep talks as they won’t help me just now.

DD is two (and eight months) and I feel like I’m doing an absolutely shite job. She doesn’t eat, at all. She refuses breakfast most days, doesn’t matter what you offer her. She may (or may not) eat half a banana mid morning as a snack. For lunch, if it’s one particular thing she’ll eat it, if not, she won’t. And then refuses dinner.

Sleep is shocking; she went to sleep at quarter past nine last night and was up at 515. It isn’t generally this bad to be fair, but she does wake constantly through the night, it’s absolutely doing my head in and making me tired and snappy and angry. I’m so frustrated with lack of sleep, it feels like I have a newborn. I’ve tried sleep training but it didn’t seem to work (it did with her sibling) please don’t suggest co sleeping, it’s just no sleeping for anyone, she dicks about all night and windmills and thrashes.

Obviously her behaviour isn’t very nice probably because she’s tired and hungry.

I’m sorry to hear you are struggling. Can I ask, do you give her milk? Other drinks? What are her bmi centiles? Also, have you brought up both issues with the health visitor?
All of my children (I have six) were up for the day at 4.30am aged between 18 months and three and it was soul destroying…I was incredibly, achingly, tired, so you have my sympathy. I had evenings though, they all had really good bedtime routines that I was strict with as they worked. I often went to bed at the same time! What is bedtime/evenings like? Also, how much exercise is she getting?

So she does have milk - only in the evening though as if she has it in the day it perpetuates the problem. I’m at a loss.

I am not sure re her BMI centiles but to be fair she doesn’t look especially underweight although she is notably leaner than she was a few months ago. That could just be growing though. I’m more worried about the lack of variety in her diet.

I am on my own with them a lot so i do have a pretty watertight routine. It does go out of the window twice a week when she attends nursery though. But on ‘my’ days she doesn’t nap in the day and she goes to bed at 7 or just before and then wakes for the day between 6-7 so not too bad really. But the constant wake ups are awful and mean I never properly get a good chunk of uninterrupted sleep.

My 3.5 year old is exactly the same. Very limited diet. He's on the pathway for assessment now. Could ND be a possibility? Completely understand giving milk at night, especially when they've eaten hardly anything all day. Have you spoken to HV about it or the GP?

Oh OP that sounds so tough. Is she at nursery or a childminder? If so, how does she eat there?

No … I don’t think there would be anything particularly useful other than the ‘keep mealtimes relaxed and fun’ sort of approach. I don’t think she’s ND, it’s more likely my parenting. I just wish I knew where I’d gone wrong.

She eats more regularly and more of a variety at nursery but they are tiny portions and she doesn’t always eat them all.

I don’t think there’s any identifying info on here - attached her diary from yesterday.

Have you been to the GP? There could be an ENT issue, adenoids, tonsils etc that might effect both eating and sleep.
Maybe also go for a dental check up.

I think she does possibly have some back molars coming through; she said the other day her teeth were hurting but hasn’t mentioned it since. Even when she’s had a dose of calpol the wake ups are relentless though. It’s really getting to me now. In four months she’ll be three and I’m sort of losing the will with not having any proper sleep.

What happens when she wakes at night ? If having any food or drink I would stop that or offer water only

do you make night wakings boring ? So no engaging in conversations

if you feel you can’t do yourself - would you consider a sleep trainer?

I would stop the milk before bed as she knows if she doesn’t eat much she won’t go hungry as will have milk

We can’t diagnose on here, only sympathise. I’ve been awake five hours so far today, mine was also a bad eater so dietician ended up prescribing calorie supplements. However, my child is disabled so we have a reason.

The only suggestion I could make is see you GP. They can advise on feeding and sleeping. I know quite a few children on melatonin for sleep problems.

For a while, you may have to go to bed with your little one does. At least then you’ll get some sleep, I know you don’t want to co-sleep, and I can understand why, but for me eventually it was the only choice.

Hopefully your GP or health visitor can help.

Do you think she might be sleeping too long at nursery?

I’d get her checked at the gp. Sometimes anaemia causes low appetite. Has she always been a poor eater or is it sudden? Are there any healthy things she likes? Full fat Greek yoghurt, breadsticks? Cheese cubes?

lol at engaging in conversations

to be honest nothing happens, I go in and reassure her and then go out again. Sometimes she goes straight back to sleep; sometimes she doesn’t and calls out again. To be fair you generally can resettle her quite quickly but then she just keeps waking up. I don’t think I’ve ‘caused’ it by discussing king Lear at 230 in the morning or anything.

When she goes to nursery I wish they wouldn’t try so hard to get her to sleep - they deny this but I know they do. Hopefully once she’s potty trained she can go to the next room where they don’t routinely nap. But the wake ups are relentless whether or not she’s been to nursery.

@Anewuser she just doesn’t sleep when I try to do sleep with her, at all. I mean literally she just stays up rolling around and wanting to play. I’m not anti it - if she slept and I slept it would be fine but she doesn’t so I don’t.

I can’t just go to bed when she does as I have another child I have to sort. It all feels relentless and bleak at the moment. I really felt like I regretted having her this morning.

Do you eat with her at mealtimes?
Often children of her age respond to parents eating the same food, at the table, at the same time.

Are her meals at home 'uninterrupted' - at a table, no TV or screens, no fuss- just putting the food in front of her and eating your own portion of it at the same time.

I think this is about control, rather than food.
She will sense you are anxious so however hard it is, try not to show it.

Do you fuss or scold her when she doesn't eat? Mealtimes never work if they become a battle ground.

I don’t know that she does as she will eat things she likes - the problem is these things have become so limited that unless I literally give her the same meal for breakfast lunch and dinner she won’t eat. And I’m worried about overdoing it and having her refuse that meal and having nowhere to turn.

The food thing is by the by in a way, it’s the sleep that’s getting to me. I know toddlers do go through these stages and I don’t make a big deal of it but just the same her eating has become so limited it’s troubling me a bit.

I'd ask nursery to stop the naps.
If she sleeps well on days when she's not at nursery it looks as if she doesn't need a nap and it's keeping her awake more longer in the day.

They won’t @NorthernishLass ; they say they can’t stop her from sleeping. There is no way at all she’s just taking herself off to nap but I am not there so I can’t really do much. In any event it doesn’t make a difference. The nap problem is that it takes her ages to go to sleep on nursery days but I can live with that twice a week. It’s the waking through the night I hate.

This may sound harsh but kids will eat if they are hungry.

I know it's hard but I think you need to break this cycle of always giving her the food she likes. Mix it up a bit and if she refuses to eat it, throw it away and say nothing.

She won't starve herself. Seriously!

Maybe try adding one new food with the regular stuff and keep doing that.

Are you eating the same things? At the same time?
You didn't answer that question.

You need to get tough with them.
You're paying for nursery and if you want to change her routine they should agree- or you may have to consider choosing another nursery.
Speak to the head teacher or whoever is in charge and make your wishes clear.

When she wakes at night what do you do?

Have you ignored her?

Mine woke at night when much younger and I had to be really tough, not going into their rooms and they quickly got the message that waking up didn't mean mum was going to appear or sit with them.

I'm not going to give you any advice OP as our circumstances for experiencing the same are probably different, but I have been here. The sleeping thing really does make you miserable, you might get 6 hours sleep on paper but you haven't got enough deep sleep or REM or just enough in one go. Being pulled out of the deep sleep stage more than one in a night makes me feel like an anxious wreck the next day too.
Do you have anyone who could give you a break for a few hours on a weekend so you can at least get a nap in? Or just some down time to recoup.

Sounds like ADHD to me OP, could be sensitivity around foods. Have you tried options/visual aids for food? Also I would speak to your HV it’s likely she’s not producing melatonin.

I'm not a parent but if your problem with co-sleeping is related to thrashing, etc, could you sleep in the same room but separately? A camp bed, a single bed?

As an aside, well done for managing to be absolutely hilarious even though you’re at a low ebb.