Two year old DD doesn’t eat, doesn’t sleep and I’m losing my mind

[Doingshite]

I’m in a very low place at the moment so please don’t reply with those robust MN pep talks as they won’t help me just now.

DD is two (and eight months) and I feel like I’m doing an absolutely shite job. She doesn’t eat, at all. She refuses breakfast most days, doesn’t matter what you offer her. She may (or may not) eat half a banana mid morning as a snack. For lunch, if it’s one particular thing she’ll eat it, if not, she won’t. And then refuses dinner.

Sleep is shocking; she went to sleep at quarter past nine last night and was up at 515. It isn’t generally this bad to be fair, but she does wake constantly through the night, it’s absolutely doing my head in and making me tired and snappy and angry. I’m so frustrated with lack of sleep, it feels like I have a newborn. I’ve tried sleep training but it didn’t seem to work (it did with her sibling) please don’t suggest co sleeping, it’s just no sleeping for anyone, she dicks about all night and windmills and thrashes.

Obviously her behaviour isn’t very nice probably because she’s tired and hungry.

Hmm it does sound like what my DC was doing and that was adenoids causing sleep apnea. I had no idea and just thought they were crap at sleeping.

I go in and reassure her and then go out again.

Maybe try not going in?

She knows that if she makes a fuss you will go in.

You have to break the cycle.

It may get worse before it gets better but it will work eventually.

What foods will she eat ?

you know I didn’t mean Chats about king Lear 😜 but to make wake ups boring - go in. Check ok (you know she is) it’s sleep time. Night. Walk out - repeat and leave longer each time

you need to tell nursery no naps. She’s almost 3. Yes some children still nap then and sleep at night well. My dd did but she still loves her sleep now and almost 9

but many kids don’t need a nap at almost 3 - so you tell and insist no naps. She can have quiet time looking at a book colouring etx

She just gets more and more worked up and then everyone ends up disturbed. It also takes longer to settle her then.

She eats

Homemade chilli & rice
banana (sometimes, definitely not regularly)
crisps
a bit of chicken
a bit of broccoli

Even things you’d expect her to eat like chocolate and sweets are refused. Not that I routinely try but they do get offered to her at parties and things.

She used to eat toast and crumpet, egg, pasta and beans but now refuses all these things. Her diets never been brilliant but now we’re very limited.

I’ll get her checked out - might be worth looking into. She did have an ear infection but that’s cleared up now.

Have you tried potty training?

I would take her to GP just to check there isn’t anything wrong.

I also wouldn’t rule out ND.

Is dad on the scene to share the load?

Some won't. My son lost a lot of weight when he started school. I assumed he was eating at lunch so if he didn't eat much in the evening I didn't insist (or intentionally find things he liked). He ended up so thin and school finally told me he didn't eat anything at lunch. I had 2 year old twins so I was not really 'on it' as much as I should have been. We moved to pack lunches and I was much more intentional in giving him what he liked (at that point it was varied) as well as in the evening and he remained thin but just outside underweight. He is now 20, incredibly fussy with food and underweight. He doesn't really eat if I don't give him food, he just doesn't know when he's hungry.

We had this too. I didn't realise what a mouth breather he was until we went in the sound proofed room for a hearing test.

Hunger may be adding to the wake ups. Will she take any kind of supper? Weetabix, something a bit heavier than milk?

I'd also be getting a daily vitamin into her if you can.

I would try not to stress too much about food. You'll get people telling you theirs eat avocado and quinoa but I think most of them go through some phase of only wanting chicken nuggets (and then only one particular variety) or such like. Most come out of it again unless there are other issues at play.

For the sleep night is harder but for the early mornings, we agreed you can be awake but you are not to wake everyone else and left a toy or something they were to play with if they woke before the gro clock was the correct colour. And I'm sorry if this is really patronising but is the room dark enough now it's noticeably lighter earlier?

Mine just stopped doing this one day so there is hope.

She just gets more and more worked up and then everyone ends up disturbed. It also takes longer to settle her then.

She will. But you maybe need to go through this until she knows that you are not going to go in.

Re. food, there are loads of books and online advice on fussy eaters.
The main key point is that you have to keep offering a variety of foods. It can take 24 attempts with any food before a child accepts it.

So , add an extra veggie with the ones she likes, add osme apple slices with a banana, etc.

I'm still asking if you eat as a family ? If she sees everyone else eating the same food, she may well try it.

You are doing your best. If she’s happy enough, just let her ride this phase out. This too shall pass.
Sounds bloody exhausting please give yourself some grace.

Just posting to say there is light at the end of tunnel. I had one of these, at her worst , she was still awake at 1 am and up and bouncing at 5:30 ready for the day. Weaned herself off all naps by 1 and a half and off bottles at 11 months. Food wise, we had a two week period where she’d maybe eat a bag of crisps (the little baby ones) and maybe an apple or some chips. We had to reintroduce everything, including toast. It did get better , eventually, but there were some brutal 3/4 years. Sleep improved once she started school, and while her diet is still crap , she eats okish now.

Between the ages of 18m-3 my daughter would barely eat anything. The only thing she liked was butter, which she wanted to eat in chunks like cheese. She grew out of it and became an adventurous eater, though has always been a bit faddy with food. She’s 21 now.

She was also a bad sleeper. It improved by the time she was 4.

We had similar issues with my DS and have recently started giving him magnesium at night. We use the mighty kids brand. He has started sleeping through from 8-8. Would highly recommend it. Sleep deprivation is the worst

I think it's worth a gp visit to see if she is low in iron. That can affect sleep and appetite x

It will pass. My DD was a rubbish sleeper and a poor eater.
It's brutal right now but personally I think reassuring a child during the night is the right thing to do. She will get the hang of self settling eventually.
If she is ND then there's a good chance that learning these skills will just take longer.
My DD used to wake up and was hungry. Every single time she got the same snack. Dry oatcakes and water. So I knew she wasn't waking up for fun food! But mostly what she wanted was comfort and reassurance. Ironically she would want to talk about King Lear at 3am now...
Have you considered ARFID for the eating? Look it up and see if it resonates.
Fundamentally it's not your fault. Some kids sleep and eat well and some don't. But for most, it resolves and improves over time.
Can you get away for the occasional night to catch up on sleeping?

This kind of thing is soul-destroying, you have my full sympathy.

I would say it’s not unusual for them to reduce what they eat around this age but obviously the more limited a range they have, the more worrying it is.

Does she seem hungry-but-won’t-eat-that, distressed, or uninterested in food? One of my little relatives is the latter and simply seems to have minimal interest in food apart from sweets. I had one who would refuse food even when hungry and wail in distress at the prospect of eating something that wasn’t his safe food. He turned out to be autistic.

As for sleep, that had improved by around age 3 for us but I agree I would insist to nursery that unless she actually settles herself down, she is not to be offered a nap or encouraged to nap. I would ask some very pointy questions around what is happening at nap time and whether she is copying the other children or being encouraged to nap. Be clear about the implications at home.

As for the wakings, that could be neurodiversity, habit, or a physical issue (did she have reflux as a baby?), I’d definitely want to rule out adenoids and so on. I would definitely consider the GP and then perhaps some sleep training if no physical issue can be found. Good luck, it’s awful when you don’t get sleep. And it’s not your fault either, some kids are just like this!

My younger DS was like this and has since been diagnosed with autism. He absolutely hated meal times and refused to eat so I got rid of the idea and used to leave little plates of food around for him to pick at when he felt like it. If he was playing I'd just put a small plate of food on a table nearby without saying anything and walk off. He was far more curious about food when it was all up to him. He is 11 now and will eat meals at the table, so it didn't mess him up or anything. Just helped us while we were in a food standoff as a toddler.

He didn't sleep and still doesn't really. But what I did was made his room as safe as possible. Mattress on the floor, very few toys, babygate, lots of books. Sometimes he'd wake around 3am, flip through some books and then have another little sleep. Co sleeping didn't work for us, neither of us got any sleep and I'd often end up covered in bruises from where he'd be bouncing all over me all night!

Doingshite Well I think you are the opposite of your user name TBH. Toddlers are hard work .Mine are older now ,but I well remember DD waking and feeling exhausted . I would speak to Nursery and explain 1hr 15 is quite a long nap. Often though, the children are perhaps more tired from playing with other DC, running ,and learning through play (Used to be a Nursery Teacher)than at home.Maybe see if HV can help at all. Dont worry,we have all been there and wished just for a second we didnt have DD.Its quite normal .You are shattered!

Impressed eats chilli

so likes mince

could you vary it with pasta

so spag bol - on jackets - lasagne

Just a handhold. You must be completely shattered.

Tbh I would keep giving her what she will eat, plus one veg or other thing on the table each time (in a separate pot if she won’t tolerate it otherwise). But I get it’s the sleep you care about far more.

I hope you can take a day off when she’s at nursery and just sleep? Hope you’re looking after your own iron levels etc.

Hi OP, just want to reassure you that it is not your parenting. I have 3DC, middle child did not eat. 3rd child did not sleep. I often regretted having DC in those exhausted long broken nights. I ended up with depression through sleep deprivation. You will get through it.

Things improved with the bad eater when we started to ignore it - he is 19 now, over 6ft tall and has not eaten a vegetable in 17 years. He was diagnosed with ARFID at 10, and no amount of cajoling, bribing, starving helped - children with ARFID will starve rather than eat, it is a sensory issue and they just cannot take the food. Now your DD might not have this, but his issues with food started when he was 2.

I can’t help you in sleep - I tried everything. My DD was forced to sleep at nursery even though she would not sleep at home at that age , but she was in full time so there was no break! Once she moved up a room and the day naps stopped, life improved.

I know you might not want to hear it, but you will get through it and life will be good again. I love my kids now (mainly because they spend most of the week out at school and college and with friends!).

Try to find as much time to sleep as you can - let the housework go, read in bed with your other DC, you sound like an amazing mum.

I studied psychology and I remarked to friends that if you are taking the time to ask what you can do better, you are already more self aware than 80% of parents over millennia.

Try to find fun mum friends - my best friend, who sadly passed this summer after a 2 year battle with cancer, was my life saver. She also had a DC who didn’t eat or sleep and we battled through the trenches together.

Thank you. I do appreciate the answers as I really am in a dark place at the moment. For the record she’s eaten absolutely nothing yet today, seems fine in herself though. It doesn’t sound harsh to say she’ll eat when she’s hungry but I think she gets to the point where she’s beyond hungry, she will literally go hours and hours without eating anything. So today for instance she’s been up for six hours and hasn’t eaten a thing.

I don’t think I care any more. I think I’ve stopped liking her much, maybe it’s tiredness talking. I don’t know. I feel like if she wasted away it would be a bit of a blessing as I do honestly regret having her so much.

@Doingshite do you have anyone in real life who can support you?

No no one thanks though.

@doingshitejust a handhold, really, as I know too well how fucking brutal sleep deprivation is.

I can only second recommendations to have a good medical checkup done - although I can imagine a GP fobbing you off with “it’s normal, it’ll pass”.

Some parents swear by melatonin - in the UK it’s usually prescriptions only but you can buy it off the internet. Some friends of mine found it really helped with their ND kids. Is there a chance you would have the financial means to pay for a “night nurse” and for you to take yourself to a nearby hotel for a couple of nights (going home during the day) so you have a chance at a bit of decent sleep? Unless you have someone in your life who could do that for you.

you should maybe also talk to your GP about having depression. It’s likely to be brought on by lack of sleep but they might be able to prescribe you something to help with the low mood.

Of course it’s Saturday but please please do request a GP appointment. You sound horrifically low and depleted.

If you feel even more low, would you call 111 option 2, or text SHOUT to 85258?

What area are you in, roughly? (County etc) do you have anything to do today? Are you going to see a friendly face?