One year old can’t self-soothe 😭

[SnugSheep]

Our one-year-old DS is really struggling with sleep at night. He has a well-established bedtime routine which he shares with DD: bath, feed, book, bed by 7pm. He’s breastfed and we night weaned him before Christmas but that went to shit when we were away for a week visiting family. Even before that though he just replaced the comfort of the boob with DH’s patting and presence next to the bed.

It’s getting ridiculous. He sleeps 7-11pm ish but then he rouses himself and demands constant intervention until the day starts at 6. Hours of patting and shushing and getting up and down to sit next to the bed, while he shouts and cries until he’s genuinely distressed. He’s not cold, he’s not hungry, or ill, and he’s very tired. But he fights sleep like crazy and poor little guy can’t stay asleep. I don’t understand what’s waking him really, other than something developmental maybe? His language and communication is defining thick and fast. He’s fine for naps and gets between 2.5 and 3 hrs sleep during the day. Too much perhaps? I still think he needs two naps though. Currently, he naps 9.15-10:30 ish and then about 2.30-3.30 pm.

We were slow to help him learn to sleep due to his allergies, and repeated illness mainly (him & us), plus we were keen to protect our toddler’s sleep next door. But this is driving us mad now. He’s slept through literally once in a year and that’s with all kinds of support. We don’t want to cosleep. Me, DS, and DH are all absolutely terrible at it; it’s just as bad as this situation for us. We want DS able to self soothe better and sleep through (ish) so we can move him out of our room and into the one he has to share with DD.

Any tips for sleep training at this age? Please help! We’re looking at Ferber. It did wonders for DD at 9 months who defeated much gentler interventions and who now sleeps like a champ (even with DS’s noise in our tiny house), but I’m aware it might be different for DS at his age. Any experiences of doing Ferber with a one-year old? Or just any kind of sleep ‘training’ at this age that worked for you and your baby? 🙏

Would it be abuse /neglect if you ignored them all day?

Yes, of course it would be. What is your point?

Surely the point is that ignoring your baby’s need is neglect, day or night.

I agree with mindutopia .. I've never believed in self soothing.. when l trained as an NNEB.. we were taught a baby should never learn to self sooth.. it develops MH problems in later life.
It's cruel....bouncingblob is correct .
That's all I'm saying.. l usually skip by these posts... can't bare to think about it.

But babies DO wake a lot!? Why is this still surprising to people!? Babies are programmed to wake up. They have tiny stomachs that need filling more frequently than an adult one. They're checking that they're safe and their parent is present. It's NORMAL to wake a lot. That's why sleep training gets a bad wrap - it's working against nature which is why it can (in some cases) trigger poor mental health in children.

Co sleeping gets the OP what she wants - more sleep. And it does so in a way that works with a baby's natural state of being. And as I've said, co-sleeping can be in the child's bed rather than yours if you want to eventually start sneaking out. Or you could try a seperate bed in his room. And if the baby learns to trust that the adult will be there (which they won't if you keep leaving them to cry) then they'll wake less and less. They won't need to wake up to assess their safety. They know the parent is there.

One year olds should wake every hour? Her stomach isn't that small any more, I've seen her eat!

Nobody is suggesting that newborns don't wake a lot. The newborn stage was easy. Waking every hour when cosleeping with my one year old and having to go to work etc. is hard and is not a misunderstanding on my part because 'babies wake a lot'.

Also, I've been cosleeping for a year. She has not started waking less and less.

Seriously, you think one year olds need feeding at very regular intervals all night long?

I am not opposed to cosleeping (obviously, because I do it) I was just advising the OP that it might not help prevent her baby waking frequently, which is what her issue is.

Sorry but I need to deal with this very directly as this is not true.

There is absolutely ZERO scientific evidence linking sleep training with mental health issues.

This has been studied and debunked several times over now.

What science says there IS a link between is poor sleep duration/quality and emotional/behavioural issues in childhood.

You've written two posts quoting me but I'll try and respond to both here.

Firstly, my original comments were not aimed at you. How was I to know your child wakes every hour? I wasn't giving you advice. OP said her child needed "intervention". I was suggesting that co sleeping might reduce his need for intervention. Just because it didn't make a difference to you doesn't mean it wouldn't to her (and vice versa but if her attempts at NOT intervening aren't working, it's worth a a shot, isn't it?)

Secondly, yes, some one year olds require milk at night. Just because they're not a newborn doesn't mean their stomachs are adult sized and some children - even at one - eat less than others. Not all babies are identical to yours. And once again, I have no idea who you or your child are and I don't know anything about your situation. I wasn't advising you so my comments attempted to reflect a broad spectrum of children - not yours.

I'm aware of that. I was simply trying to warn OP that she might start cosleeping, but it wouldn't help her child sleep better at all, but then she's left to try to get him back in his own space again at some point, and be just as exhausted.

Your patronising tone 'But babies DO wake a lot!? Why is this still surprising to people!?' got to me, I'll admit. Quite unnecessary. Nobody thinks babies don't wake a lot, but many many 1 year olds sleep through, so it's not unreasonable for her to hope for better sleep at this stage of her babies life.

That’s normal???? Kids can ‘self soothe’ until 2 or 3 or sometimes older. Do you not still like a hug after a bad or tiring day? Stop believing nonsense

He is only a baby. 1 is still so young. Why all the pressure for him to sleep through?
my bf son didn’t sleep through until 2.5 yrs and naturally decided he’d become a brilliant sleeper ever since. My daughter is 2.5yr old wakes up once sometimes twice. We give her some milk in a bottle, while we settle her in our arms and she goes back to sleep. I know not everyone likes the idea of a bottle but if i was still breastfeeding i’d offer my boob. It shouldn’t be any different.

They need closeness and comfort when they are little. He is crying because he just wants to be held.

Babies don’t wake up because they’re bored of being asleep!! They wake because they have a need that is not being met. Just like all humans. Bad dream / cold/ hot/ sick/ hungry/thirsty/ scared/ need a wee etc etc. Choosing to not respond to the child only teaches them they can’t trust you. So they stop asking.

That is not parenting success.

You said co-sleeping wouldn't help as it wouldn't prevent frequent waking. I'm pointing out that it might reduce (or even extinguish) the waking. It might. It might not. We don't know. Neither of us do. But one of us thinks it's worth a go.
It's all very well saying "I was just warning her it might not help" but if we all did that she'd have no advice at all because what works depends on the entire family, their temperaments and dynamics, and noone here knows any of that.

I don't think that pointing out that many babies wake up a lot is unnecessary. My tone was simply incredulous that anyone might have a baby and still be surprised that they wake up. I didn't say she can't expect more sleep (although she hasn't said how much she gets. Only that her child wants "constant intervention"). I said that it's normal for babies (yes, even 1yr olds) to wake for milk and for comfort and therefore co sleeping (or at least room sharing, although OP has, I think, clarified that that was disturbing rather than helping him) MIGHT be the answer.

Why are you so intent on contradicting me when I'm not actually disagreeing with you?

I didn't say wouldn't, I said it might not. I was just advising her that it might not be the answer to her problem. You're right though, it might, and if she can / wants to she should give it a try, but maybe not to expect miracles. Unfortunately it seems some babies / children just don't sleep no matter you do. Let's leave it there and agree on what we can agree on?

I always find the “Ferber is cruel/causes MH problems” line interesting because I’ve never actually seen any decent evidence for that (open to reading about it, if anyone has any?). From what I’ve read, there’s no good data showing long-term harm from sleep training.
Obviously some parents don’t want to do it and that’s fine, but I don’t think it’s fair to present it as damaging when for some families it’s the only way anyone gets any sleep.

Correct. Nobody will judge a parent for not doing it, but suggestions it causes long term or even short term issues with mental health is totally false and not backed up by any scientific study.

Switching to 1 nap worked for us. A couple of weeks to settle but it worked. Always gave comfort during any night wakening. Took time off work to recover when it was hard going. It passes. It’s horrible during it but it does change again.

Teething was rough for DD at that age so we comforted and gave ibuprofen… disguised in a small amount of milk in a bottle.

I didn't sleep train and she eventually learnt to settle herself (although, obviously, not if she is ill).