To have a second or not to have a second...

[DoubleChocolateBrownies]

I'd like to be the parent of two children but I don't want to do the parenting – at least not at the start.

My first is nearly 3. I hated the birth, which I found traumatic (severe pre-eclampsia, emergency C-section at 36 weeks). At first I was obsessed with being the best mum ever, exclusive breastfeeding, etc, but it drove me mad and after about the 6 month mark I started to hate my mat leave and wished I hadn't committed to the full 12 months. I hated being off work, feeling like a fat lonely loser. Every time my baby couldn't do something, even blowing raspberries, it made me deeply depressed. I don't understand how people feel good about themselves without work!

My husband wants another. I'm struggling to decide. I would do it if I could skip the first... 18 months? The lack of sleep and the not going to work sends me crazy. (I'm sure there are some deep reflections I could do about my self-esteem etc but I don't have time.) So he suggests I could just take only 3 months off work, and he'll look after the baby while working from home until the kid goes to nursery. He also promises to do nights etc. I believe him – he does the heavy lifting already and is a brilliant dad.

We have finally just moved to a two-bed, and parenting has got so much easier recently, with my DD sleeping on her own, in her own room, through the night.

I would do things differently next time – not be a perfectionist about it, much more relaxed, not EBF the whole time, shorter mat leave, etc. But, still, do I really want to start again and make my life much harder for a few years? OTOH, am I really going to make such a big decision based on the annoyance I'd experience for a couple of years? I am curious and I worry I'll regret not doing it before the age gap gets bigger.

Pros:
Cute baby
Interesting experience
Give my DD a sibling
They can play together once past the baby stage

Cons:
Sleepless nights
More expensive
Babysitting much less likely so less adult time
Risk of depression
Doing the whole pregnancy and childbirth thing

Any advice?

So he suggests I could just take only 3 months off work, and he'll look after the baby while working from home until the kid goes to nursery.

How long will this arrangement be for? He can’t work from home and care for a baby as anything but a very short term, emergency plan. He wouldn’t be able to do either well. He’d need to take proper leave - probably via the SPL scheme https://www.gov.uk/shared-parental-leave-and-pay

From everything you’ve said though, I think you should stick at 1. That’s not a criticism. Having 1 child is a completely valid option. I think a lot of parents would be a lot happier if they had stuck at 1 DC instead of caving to this weird pressure to give their DC a sibling despite hating pregnancy/birth/maternity leave/the baby and toddler stage. I struggled with everything you struggled with and, while I love my 2 dearly, life is still a lot harder over 2 years on. I often fantasise about how easy life would be if I just had a 5 year old to deal with. Babysitters have stopped offering, it’s been a lot harder to get back into shape, DH and I are more strained and the kids still don’t really play together, without a lot of supervision.

To be honest, unless you got going now I also think your age gap would be relatively prohibitive for playing together. The difference between a 3 year old and a 7 year old is noticeable.

None of your pros scream someone who wants another child to be honest. Especially with a suboptimal plan from your DH for the babies first year.

It doesn't sound like you want another baby at all. No judgement, it's incredibly hard work. But don't have another if you don't want to

Do you think you’re more likely in the future to regret doing it or not doing it? I didn’t love the first 3 months (I don’t find newborns very exciting 🫣) but I very much wanted two children and was fast approaching 40 so I had my second a few weeks ago at 39 and they have a 19 month age gap. It’s bloody hard work but I’m still so glad we did it. If you don’t think you’re likely to feel like that I would maybe say it’s probably best not to, and that is with absolutely zero judgement as I would completely understand why one would be more than enough for anyone!

I could have written this myself honestly. No advice really- if I knew the answer I'd be happier myself but finding these responses quite helpful!

How much do you enjoy your DD now? Does it still feel like a slog or do you look forward to spending time with her at weekends?

It's hard to know whether it was awful for you because your mental health was in a bad place or whether your mental health was poor because you found it so hard. Which do you think it was?

It could go either way, it could be easier this time around now you're going in with your eyes open (maybe not EBF, taking shared parental leave, lowering expectations as you know every baby masters raspberries eventually) and put some of these feelings of failure to rest OR it could be worse and confirm your fears.

DH can't work and do childcare, either/or - paternity leave then nursery. Otherwise he'll just be doing two things badly.

Either way, you should separately look into your attitude to your self worth and working. It's a shaky premise to base your entire self esteem on. It's bad enough to become ill, be made redundant, retire etc. without also feeling you have nothing left. It's great you feel valued and enjoy your job, but there is more to life.

So he suggests I could just take only 3 months off work, and he'll look after the baby while working from home until the kid goes to nursery.

This tells me he did fuck all to help the first time around. There is no way someone who's already had a child and actually did any caring for said child thinks they can WFH with a 3-12 month old?

Also, FYI, I went back to work at 6 months as I had my baby abroad and that's all the mat leave I got there. It's no picnic. Having to work 9 hours plus commute, getting ready, after getting 3 hours of cumulative sleep because your baby is teething is hell on earth. We had a wonderful nanny but even so, it was absolute hell until around 10 months.

And once you are back at work, you can't half arse it. You can't show up for work and say sorry I have a small baby so I'm a bit useless today. You have to smile, meet the clients, meet your deadlines, while you miss every milestone and then when you get home baby is clingy as fuck because they missed you. You'll still feel like a fat loser but a much more exhausted one.

With at least a 4 year age gap I can't see them playing together unfortunately. Your husband also can't mind the baby and work.

Going by your list the cons outweigh the pros but I don't think lists like that work anyway. You need to go with what you want in your heart, you'll make something work if its what you really want but I sense that you don't and that's okay too

I had all the initial worries as you and decided to bite the bullet and go for it (there is a 3 year age gap too) and now have an 8 week old.

Apart from a difficult start with colic it hasn't been nowhere near as bad as I thought. Second time round, I don't have the time to worry about being a perfectionist or obsessing over milestones, wake windows etc. I also had severe post natal depression and because of this, there was a lot of support put in place (referral to the perinatal team, hv support) because of this.

For sleepless nights, I've bottle fed so I've been able to share night feeds and because my baby only now wakes once a night, I get a full night sleep every other night and I've been really lucky these past weeks in that I've only been a little tired, I've genuinely not feel even remotely exhausted or sleep deprived!

While there's nothing wrong with being an only child and I absolutely don't buy any of the stereotypes associated with them, I grew up with two siblings close in age. Despite not speaking to them now, I did like growing up with siblings and loved playing with them and the made up games we had and part of wanting a second child was to give my eldest a sibling and someone to play with in the same way I did and its how I imagined my family to be. Obviously its far tok early to tell but I'm glad I made the leap as my eldest absolutely adores his little brother and seeing them smile and interact with each other makes it worthwhile.

And in terms of babysitting, we've been very lucky but we've already had two nights out already (both back by 10). We started as we meant to go on. Both of them in bed early so it's not been a problem for aoneone to watch them while they've both been asleep but I appreciate everyone is different.

And my last post! One of my siblings is 4 years older than me and we played together loads when we were younger. My husband is five years older than his brother and they are best friends and loads of shared interests and friends.

Honestly he did more than any other dad I know, and does more parenting than I do nowadays. His job is one of those where you just have meetings all day and make decisions but don't actually do anything. But yeah I still think he's probably being unrealistic.

He is paid almost three times what I'm paid and I only get SMP, so unfortunately we wouldn't be able to give up his salary for long.

"You'll still feel like a fat loser but a much more exhausted one." LOL, I believe you.

I had my first child in virtually identical circumstances to you. Until he was about two I really thought we might stick to having one, then changed my mind but wasn’t anticipating enjoying the baby stage again at all, just thought I’d have to get through it. Had my second when he was about 3 and a half and it has been a RADICALLY different and more enjoyable experience. Don’t underestimate how much the trauma around your first birth will have impacted you and your experience of motherhood. I didn’t realise it until I had a straightforward birth with my second. Before that I used to think that all women secretly found it as tough as I had, but now I know that’s not the case - it really can be quite easy and nice! Obviously there are no guarantees, but if you are genuinely on the fence, and you enjoy parenting now (most of the time at least), I would really go for it.

What job does he do that he could juggle a baby and WFH? I can't see how that's possible at all. If you're not 100% sure you want another baby then it's much better not to have one IMO. And you say you're in a 2 bed so they'd share a room - what if they don't get on? You probably have to move again at some point too especially if they're a boy and a girl.

I'm biased because I only have one but i thin kit's the best thing ever. When all my friends were completely stressed out with their kids arguing and fighting all summer holiday long, I was having a lovely time. If you want to keep your life easy then stick to one I think.

How on earth is he going to deal with a baby when he's in meetings all day long?

As a parent of 2, I’d say stick at one. I love my second born beyond compare, and obviously wouldn’t now change things but two is quadruple the work. And even as they get older they argue none stop, so you become a referee too.

I’d say the same to anyone, don’t have a baby unless you absolutely cannot think of anything else you want to do in your life more than having a baby. Otherwise it’s thankless and exhausting.

Have a second because you desperately want a second. If you’re looking practically, life just gets so much harder. Two is not a logical choice.

I love having two as that’s what I desperately wanted. But life is hard. And I do think people with one are very sensible!

There is no way he can look after a baby if he is in meetings all day. It’s a ridiculous notion. Maybe, MAYBE if he had had very flexible hours and he could work at anytime of the day or night or at weekends it could work for a few weeks. But this whole plan is a recipe for disaster and stress in its current form.

If you go for it and have a second, I think you should FF from the off (from experience, trying to stop breastfeeding at 3-6 months if baby refuses the bottle is an almighty stress), take 6 months maternity leave and then put the baby in childcare.

"How much do you enjoy your DD now? Does it still feel like a slog or do you look forward to spending time with her at weekends?"

Both, I think? I still find it hard work, it's just much more rewarding for me now that we can talk. I'm really looking forward to her talking even more. I think I'll enjoy it more and more as she grows up.

"It's hard to know whether it was awful for you because your mental health was in a bad place or whether your mental health was poor because you found it so hard. Which do you think it was?"

Again, I think both. Vicious circle. I've always been prone to depression so it didn't come as a surprise.

"Either way, you should separately look into your attitude to your self worth and working. It's a shaky premise to base your entire self esteem on. It's bad enough to become ill, be made redundant, retire etc. without also feeling you have nothing left. It's great you feel valued and enjoy your job, but there is more to life."

I guess this is a whole other discussion but I literally don't know where to start with this. Where do you get your self-esteem from then?!

Eh? Four years is the best age gap! If you’ve really struggled Id say 4 years minimum.

Sorry but this is awful… you’re saying have a baby you dont want and put it in full time childcare the second you can. Why? If the whole thought is this miserable already then why bother?

I suppose because I never had the overwhelming urge to have a baby in the first place (I did it because my DH wanted one and I thought it'd be interesting), my bar is much lower for having a second. I never tell people to only have a baby if they can't think of anything else they want to do, for example, because I certainly wouldn't have had one in that case, and I don't regret having done it – even though it was really, really, really hard. I guess I just reason that there is more to life than being happy and comfortable – there are also painful things we do because they're fulfilling and purposeful. If we avoided hard things and only ever did things we were certain about, wouldn't we all be bingeing Netflix, never leaving the house? Maybe that's just me

The OP doesn’t want a year off and her DH has suggested he cares for the baby from 3 months whilst trying to WFH. They can’t afford for him to do SPL. Of all options that don’t involve either parent taking more time off a 6 month old would be better in proper childcare than its father trying to juggle caring for it in between meetings.

Im not saying this is a great solution. But it’s better than what’s currently being suggested.

I wasn't desperate for another baby / young child but I did want my DS to have a sibling and I thought once we were through the baby / toddler years it would be nice to have two. My youngest is 20mo now and to be honest having a second hasn't been that bad because your life is already pretty screwed by the first one so another child doesn't really stop you doing much. I can see moments of nice interaction between them that make me pleased I had another one and I definitely feel like I made the right decision, FWIW.

Then what’s your post about? If you don’t mind doing hard things then have the 2nd baby and stay off for 12 months 🥴🙄