Is the child psychologist in the wrong?

[almostalwayslaura]

We have started seeing a child psychologist with my 11 year old daughter. Has major issues with health related issues, manifesting in many ways but mainly wobbly teeth. For example, if she has a wobbly tooth she completely shuts down, can’t talk or open her mouth - sounds extreme but I’m not exaggerating - it is extreme. I have been managing this myself at home however this presented itself at school and teachers/school nurse got involved.. hence the child psychologist referral.

today was the first appointment LG attended, the first two were parent only. At the first appointment we were told we would be seeing a student psychologist. The student today, after a few awkward silences and speaking to her about a few different things turned to us and bluntly said ‘have you ever considered she has autism?’ I was flabbergasted at the bluntness - obviously I am aware she has a few quirks and sensory processing issues (examples include food and being unable to touch her own neck… strange I am aware) but I just can’t believe he just came out and said it in front of her??

was he in the wrong? Am I over thinking this? I don’t know what to do or whether to return to appointments?? I am completely lost on how to support her as due to her age, periods will begin soon and i cant even begin to imagine how her brain will cope with this - she had a femur break and was in traction in hospital for 6 weeks and i do think this is the root cause but autism? I’m shocked. Any advice on what I should do would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

I don’t think so tbh. Also as if OP hadn’t been the most rude, ignorant and offensive here

The flat Earth bit is not necessary if claiming the moral high ground can be achieved without saying that

It's a very paired down explanation. Plus there's a lot of alternative diagnoses and the whole co morbid approach diagnosis wise is no longer so favoured by professionals. I'm not saying that either observation applies to your experience or OPs just that diagnostics is a complex and shifting thing

Great advice.

I would also add that my DSD, having received her self-sought diagnosis at 18, was able to access support at university, including help with note taking and extra time for exams. She did very well, and now has a great career. I am not sure she would have succeeded without her diagnosis which not only allowed her to understand herself but also opened doors to reasonable adjustments at uni and now at work, where she is quite senior.

That's exactly what happened to my DSD, she went on a gap year abroad, totally unsuitable as it turned out. Part of her autism is a blindness for directions and maps etc (fine with sat nav, but working with street children in an edgy part of town meant no phones out while volunteering) and she really needs her sleep to avoid overwhelm. She ended up being hospitalised for what were serious panic attacks and a breakdown and nearly needed airlifting home (she was fitting non stop for a while). All could have been avoided had she been diagnosed and aware of her strengths and weaknesses, she could have chosen something else to do for her gap year and had a great time, rather than a deeply traumatic time.

Hey @almostalwayslaura - it sounds like it’s been a tough time for you and your family. I hope things start to get better soon.

Just a few things.

Do read up on ASD, especially in teen and pre-teen girls. I was incredibly ignorant til my sister (late dx ASD) brought it up about my dd. I’m ashamed to say I’m a primary school teacher, but had quite fixed ideas about ASD. Remember it’s a spectrum.

It sounds like the psychologist didn’t have great people skills. Specifically, talking about your dd as if she wasn’t there. That’s awful - I’m really sorry. You spend ages waiting for an appointment and it can be devastating when you meet clinician and they do things like this.

However, at 12, I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong for the psychologist to bring this up in front of your dd. My dd saw a hospital psychologist for eczema related mental health issues. She discussed ASD assessment with my dd first, and then got my DD’s consent to raise it with me. My dd was 15 at the time, so older. But at 12 I would expect your dd to be included.

Finally, your dd will pick up on your reaction to the possibility of ASD. That will be scary for her. If she does have ASD, it will be scary and also bring a lot of shame with it. You may need to pretend to be okay with the possibility.

Thank you - I actually work at the school she attends and I know categorically they would not support a diagnosis as she is intelligent, articulate and a social butterfly - does not fit into usual social norms of ASD (I am aware it presents in different ways and masking etc.) I know they would roll their eyes at another parent looking for a ‘label’ unfortunately that is society whether people like it or not.

rude, ignorant and offensive or just uneducated? I’m sorry but I’ve never dealt with this before - I’ve never had any experience of autism or anything similar and for a man who has just met my daughter for all five minutes deciding that she may be on the spectrum is a little bit shocking to say the least. Apologies if I offended with my ignorance of this we aren’t all born knowing these things.

Autism isn’t a swear word. And it sounds possible.

Also my sister was the most popular girl at her primary and secondary school. She was diagnosed with autism in her 30s. You can be a butterfly and autistic.

I don’t think we can compare this to the world is flat analogy. I’m allowed to have my opinion on something but I do understand that I am uneducated about this. I’ve never had to deal with autism or neuro diversity in my 32 years on the Earth.

As you say, people can hold down jobs and become very successful with autism and I don’t know how having a diagnosis would support them in any way you can either do this or you can’t? Unfortunately the world is a very judgemental place and the sheer mention of the word autism is still taboo or at least is where I’m from so sorry that I was shocked that my daughter could be labelled as such. I guess it is a learning curve for me.

You say this: ‘Unfortunately the world is a very judgemental place and the sheer mention of the word autism is still taboo or at least is where I’m from’ but honestly that’s not my experience at all. Not in the slightest. If it is like that in your world, then I’m sorry. But don’t become part of the problem. Whether or not your dd has ASD, it would be better for everyone if you don’t reinforce negative stereotypes surrounding neurodiversity. First and foremost, we are role models.

I was never taken to a child psychologist. More is the pity. I got to very late 40’s and my CPN daughter said ‘you ever suspected you are ASD mum?’. OMG the penny dropped! I always felt other people understood life and ‘got the memo’ when I never did. It was so liberating to understand my brain is wired differently to other people’s.
However, if I had been taken mother would have been exactly the same as you OP. Seen it as a slur, something to be hidden.
I agree with others that it’s definitely something to be considered and more importantly be open about.

Everyone isn't on the spectrum. My dad's family is full of people with autism, my mum's doesn't have a single one who is remotely autistic. My husband is absolutely not asd but my daughters and I are.

If you think everyone is on the spectrum, chances are you have autism in your family and are used to it.

I posted a link upthread which I hope you read. It's to a mumsnet thread from last week about the value of a diagnosis. I think you will find it interesting

You've been dealing with a lot over the last few years evidently and I sense this is the final straw - far from professionals giving you 'genuine" strategic help with your child's health anxiety you feel this is going to make things far far worse. And for what...a label that will yield little in the way of practical help and make your child feel even worse about themselves than they already do.

I get it, I really do.

However, if you approach this as a way of getting strategies and practical support would that be not easier than your present situation? Imagine you are at a station and you know you want to go to the seaside that day but where? Do you want to invent the wheel and spend hours trying to decide on Torquay or St Ives or Plymouth? Maybe you are so confused that you decide to go to Waterloo instead of Paddington...maybe the trains from there will help you with your decision. But there's Euston of course, gateway to the West Coast of Scotland.

Someone suggests St Ives and Carbis Bay. You have never been to Cornwall
Okay....you hear it's is overpriced and the seagulls vicious. But you haven't been there yet and it's a difficult decision to deal with as you stand there in the station with hordes of people and their jostling Wheely suitcases.

I can understand that anyone would at this point think I'll go home and have a rethink rather than make a snap decision about my summer holiday and buy a ticket right now and hop on that train

Once you get home,you find out about more about Cornwall. You begin to realise that it would be ideal and the West Coast of Scotland despite sounding more romantic involves a lot of ferries.

That's all this is. Thoughts on possible ways of helping your daughter

I'm glad it's not your experience. Unfortunately, that's not my experience. DC has a physical disability and was therefore in the support loop at secondary. ND kids were far from immune from bullying and ignorance from kids way old enough to know better and a few teachers. Prejudice is a terrible thing and iff to was esp shocking to me that a PE teacher displayed prejudice towards physically and emotionally challenged kids in a school that also had a diff PE teacher who headed up an inclusion programme for sports.

I wanted to mention that autism presents so differently in girls and so many girls mask like crazy, and are relatively successful at doing so. But it often falls apart when they go to uni. I have long been a member of local asd circles and the high achieving, sociable girl who has a breakdown in her first term is very common.

Often there is something slightly off with an autistic girl's social skills but you can't quite put your finger on it. They can be too friendly for example. Too eager to speak to adults. Seemingly over confident.

My daughter was diagnosed in year 5. Her year 6 teacher didnt believe it. He said to me "she is the most social, confident child in the class, all the others sit with their heads down". In fact, sitting with your head down is more typical of a year 6 child. Chatting to the teacher like he is your best friend is odd. But adults like it and don't notice that it's unusual.

Sometimes autistic girls have friends for particular purposes but no idea what to do outside of this. They may seem to have lots of friends, but they are just people they see for x purpose.

Anyway, it's potentially complicated. The main thing is for your daughter not to go down a mental health route. Sadly, if autism isn't supported, this can be what happens. If you are having a panic attack due to your usual scaffolding being available, you might end up on a mental health ward, with a mental health diagnosis, when things could turn out quite differently if everyone knows she's asd.

That’s exactly what happened to me.

shame my mother was such an unsupportive cunt about it - if I’d had the right support id have maybe made it through.

remember that time that man that I just met for all of 20 minutes spoke about me like I wasn’t in the room and asked my mum and dad if I ever considered if I had autism’ is most definitely a lift sentence you carry with you forever.

in the grand scheme of the difficulties you’ve described your daughter having, this doesn’t actually sound like a big deal to me. Though I agree it was tactless and shouldnt have been handled like that. It feels like perhaps you’re exhausted and you’ve been through so much and it took so much to get her there that this was just the final straw for you and I get that.

However regarding it being pointless to label her; if she has autism and it’s causing her teeth to get wobbly and all sorts of other issues, it at least gives you an answer, she may be entitled to pip or additional funding at university, she may be entitled to things like more time in exams or quiet spaces to take exams, or a whole range of other support beyond medication. I think you’re trying to manage this at home but it sounds beyond you (beyond most people!) to do, and you owe it to your dd to explore all possibilities and find the answer for her. I think that should be the priority, not avoiding labelling her.

I’m so sorry your mum was awful about it. I have ADHD , hospitalised as a teen and misdiagnosed with bipolar. My parents were and have always been amazing. Long before any of us knew what ADHD was. Parental attitudes and support are so important.

I think you could be right. I have always suspected my dad to be on the spectrum/different but he is successful in life and his quirks are accepted for who he is - he also masks in society so you would never know.
Thank you for the thread link - I did have a brief read but I will look more thoroughly this evening when I have more time.

Exactly this. The value to getting the diagnosis is that your daughter then knows why she is like this and no longer feels shame and anxiety because she doesn’t do things in the same way as others. It’s not the autism that damages it’s the damage to self esteem from the feeling of never being enough and not knowing why.

I would’ve been considered all those things - intelligent, social, etc, as I was an expert at masking. Still am at 38!

I think if you don’t know anything about a condition your child might have you should make it your business to find out about it rather than dismissing the concern. Also the fact that this person only met your DD for 5 mins and already formed that opinion is more likely to make it right not wrong.

I cannot understand why so many are missing the point or think this acceptable. The OP was blindsided by a student child psychologist blurting out in front of her daughter that she might have autism. The OP would want to be prepared for the questions her daughter would have.

DD - Is it bad?
Mum - no it isn’t.
DD - How do you know? Tell me about it.
Mum saying I can’t right now but I will look into it is not very reassuring if a child is already anxious.

The OP is not saying autism is ‘bad’ just that she knows little about it to properly respond to her daughter at the time. She also has the benefit of teachers working with her daughter who would not support this ‘diagnosis’.

A child psychologist should never blurt out their opinion during a consultation with the child present. A professional sends a report to the school and to the parents (never to the child) and once a responsible parent has digested and had their questions answered, they can then discuss it with the child.