Human rights health visitor

[Erlisk]

I have seen it here before but the posts are old. Before my baby was born i told my midwife (UK) that i did not want any visits at home. I just like my privacy and want to be able to decide who enters my home. They offer visits as a service so i just decided to not let them in. I was happy to go for appointments.

Then in the hospital when the baby was born, they told me "someone was going to come into my house even if i do not want that". I kept saying no. They kept saying they just wanted to see where the baby would sleep etc. i said no. Then the midwifes came to the door and i told them i did not want them in my house. So they reported me to social services. Social services called me and threatened with official investigation if i do not let the midwifes and later health visitor in my house. Also for the one year visit.

I texted them many times i did not want. I also told them in person. So i have a lot of proof. Ok long story short i let them in.because they threatened with social services investigation = trying to take your baby. I had to let them in, they said everything was fine, and closed the case. But instead of bonding with my baby i was stressed that they were trying to take her away.

So. It is ten months ago so the one year visit is coming and I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY HOUSE. So i decided to go after them. And yes, it is human rights violation. It is not normal in civilised countries that someone comes to your house without your consent and without a warrant. If you do not let them in they basically threaten to take your baby.

I am not looking for the comments that they are just helping etc. I am not interested in that 😉. What i am looking for here is other moms who went after them. I am researching where to complain. I am also making a list of solicitors who would help me. And maybe some group court case? I will make complaint to NHS. I believe we only have one year for this kind of thing so only people who experienced this last year. Or if you went through going to court and have a good no win no fee lawyer (London or Kent). They are violating human rights you everyone so no, i will not let it go.

OP your posts read like English is not your first language. Is there a different experience you have of medical staff visiting your home?

My only issue with the UK model is that the quality/standards of some of the midwives is poor, or was in my experience, and it is inconsistent. I was quite ill at day 8, and getting worse, because they did not listen. Had they not chatted shit, I'd have called the doctor and the matter would have been resolved more swiftly and with far less stress.

You would rather have an invasive drug test than have someone visit your home?

Will you allow school visit to your home (which some schools do before your child starts reception)?

Will you vet houses before your child is allowed to visit them?

Sorry - hadn't read every post! I agree that if nothing else was going on, this would be excessive. However, in most instances of refusal, particularly with a first child, there is something going on. Health professionals will also (generally) be starting with some knowledge of medical history, mental illnesses and family support/isolation.

Adding that they're not operating in a vacuum, so I think, as they really don't have the time or resources to be fighting these battles randomly, we can assume there are issues.

This is such an odd thread, by refusing professionals into the home to carry out checks you have flagged to them that there may be something you are trying to hide.
If you had continued to refuse when they had involved SS they would have gained entry because they would argue they would have a legitimate reason to see inside the home.
I understand your view point that if something is an optional service than you shouldn’t be penalised for not using it, however by refusing to engage, you are indicating that that may be an issue which warrants further investigation.
They ask to come in for apts so they can check your child’s home arrangements. It’s usual now for professionals to ask to see where children sleep etc because there have been cases of abuse where if someone had actually asked to see sleeping areas they would have realised that children didn’t have beds and were sleeping in baths etc.
I know you aren’t interested in any views that are not about how someone ‘took on’ the system, however the system is there to look after the most vulnerable members of our society, why would you try and fight against something that takes 10 minutes and reassures everyone that your child is in a safe home with all its needs (medical and otherwise) being met.
Im not big on visitors but we opened our doors to midwives, heath visitors etc on the birth of our children, people work tirelessly to provide these services, it must be so disheartening for them to have to wade through situations like this.

I bet if your boiler broke you wouldn’t mind having someone in your house to fix it?

What’s the big deal, they want to know your baby is safe and being well cared for, it will take 15 minutes to show them this is the case and then you never have to see them again. They visit hundreds of houses every year, they won’t remember yours even if it’s a bit untidy or dirty.

I’m glad they threatened you with social services, it sounds like you’ve got something to hide and your baby deserves the same protection as all other babies.

Yes these checks could be done in a clinic but there is a reason they are done in the home and it would indeed raise concerns from social care if you are not allowing professionals in your home. We have to safeguard our children and they have their own human rights too as individuals - that means being able to see where and how they live, ensuring they are safe and living appropriately with all of their needs met.
What is your issue around this? When you hear of children in the media that have been abused and professionals have not seen them what is your response? I bet it’s not ‘well the parents had the right to not let them be seen’.
Let children be seen in the home, it will take a few minutes and then professionals will not pursue anything. This will not go away - professionals quite rightly will think there is a reason you are preventing someone going in your home.

You weren’t forced. You could’ve continued to refuse and if you have nothing to hide social services would’ve carried out it their checks and closed the case. If you were forced they’ve had forced entry. You decided to let them in to stop them referring you further.
There is a big difference between refusing the midwife day one visit (who is there for vital medical reasons!) and the one year check up. Very different circumstances and reasons.
Agree with others saying there must be more to this, otherwise if you felt so strongly about this and had no issues you would’ve continued to refuse and let it go to social services who wouldn’t have had any grounds to continue concerns. Really bizarre.

Sorry op but you sound like hard work. It’s a 15 minute visit to check home conditions for the baby. Lots of babies live in horrible conditions. Look at all the cases where something has happened to babies

why wouldn’t you put your child first and allow a short visit to check ? What do you have to hide!

I'll give you a little tip - do the opposite, say you have concerns about your child and need more visits/support... they will disappear without a fucking trace.

TWICE now (2 children) both me and the school have been chasing them to get referrals and assistance and they are completely uncontactable and never show up to booked visits.

With the first child COVID was part of the issue and the preschool ended up getting SALT involved and he has caught up now.

With my youngest though theres pretty much no denying she is autistic. HV picked that up at the 1 year thing said she needs monitoring booked in monthly visits then just vanished. Never once shown up to any of them (and I have proof they are booked, letter, appointment reminders, phone calls to the booking center asking where they are since they never came). She has been referred by preschool (who have tried chasing it several times), the opticians (they think she maybe partial blind but cannot test her properly due to being non verbal), SALT and still no one can get a response from them. Its been nearly 3 years of no contact from them.

When I needed a heating plumber I sought recommendations from people I trusted and took estimates/proposals and suggestions from companies before contracting the service . They did an excellent job for which I was appreciative and kept them on for the long term servicing etc.

We have precisely zero say in our HVs or any services they may provide. We have no choice (except take it or leave it).

Perhaps if we did pay for the service or could at least choose what we want from the service and who we wish to provide it the service would be better received.

The two scenarios are not remotely comparable

We do pay for the service. The NHS and all "free" health services come from our taxes.

Having a say in who it is, that's different. But if you wanted to you could pay extra for a different health care professional privately and choose them.

Anyway, OP didn't turn away HVs, she turned away midwives for the 5 day check & heel prick. No wonder there was referrals, because that's denying her baby care.

Surely op you can see that your refusal raises a red flag? Because whilst you might be refusing simply because you “don’t want to” others might be refusing because actually, there are issues? Do you think anyone refuses by saying, “you can’t come because I am not looking after my baby properly”? How are the relevant health professionals meant to know the difference?
The public sector is massively overstretched. If they could safely cut back on these visits, they would and would save a lot of time and money. They can’t. Think about that.

OP …. In future, if you want to avoid the whole “system”. Then pay for private medical care.

If you have private maternity care, and private hospital delivery … you can avoid the nhs completely. You can also have completely private care for your baby, if you self pay. It will be tens of thousands … the cost of privacy.

However … if the hospital staff or doctors think you are “of concern” they will need to report you. They are obligated.

Absolutely 💯 per cent this. Every other professional adviser with whom I engage has been requested to do the work by me, having had their reputation and profile checked by me. That was my principle issue with the HV service. I even chose the hospital where I gave birth, had tours of local hospitals and was able to ask questions and ask doctor friends where they would have a baby.

Maybe not in your area, but I most certainly do write to housing association's and private landlords on behalf of my patients.

I'm afraid I lost all sympathy (and belief) that this is about you enforcing your "human rights" when I read this post. So, you think that a HV checking your baby's home environment is safe and meets their needs is a violation of your human rights, but routine drug/alcohol testing of parents who haven't done anything to warrant it, isn't? That's absolute nonsense and has nothing to do with you caring about your human rights. 🙄

You've posted on 'am I being unreasonable' - people give opinions whether you like it or not.

Many people think you're being unreasonable.

Is the HVs who haven’t shown up? That’s shocking but I can believe it.

I would head on over to the SN Children section where you can get advice on being referred to the pathway without the HV

I hate people in my house. But I let the midwives, health visitors and my family support worker in. Felt really embarrassed the first time they came to my old flat because I'd been away for nearly two weeks (hospital stay and then staying at my friend's house), there were dead woodlice all over the floor (basement studio) and I hadn't had a chance to hoover the carpet!

Violating human rights? How exactly? I’m sorry OP but there is children at risk every single day in the UK. Some are born in to poverty and are neglected whilst their parents love them very much it can’t be helped because of the families circumstances and then sadly others are just mistreated and abused. I for one am very glad of the service that the midwife’s provide. I’ve two minutes ago read a thread about a women worried about her next door neighbours baby - this is just one example of things that midwives can help with. This type of behaviour isn’t normal if you have nothing to hide why would you put all of your energy into fighting a system that is there to keep us safe?

What about the human rights of your child?

OP has effectively "requested" the service by giving birth to a baby in this country. This is how it works. I am very grateful that the state has measures in place to safeguard babies in this country and I would rather be inconvenienced a thousand times than have one baby slip through the cracks and die because the system didn't safeguard them. Is the system perfect? No, of course not. Would it be nicer if we could choose our HV? Sure, but I won't hold my breath for the NHS having the resources to facilitate that. The system is bare bones as it is and for someone like the OP to start talking about human rights and taking them to court is abundantly selfish. Changing the law so that HV can't report to SS for this would put children in danger - and aside from anything else, frankly, the NHS have got quite enough to do without dealing with stupid legal challenges as well.

She has not requested the service by giving birth in the UK. As far as the HV service is concerned it is universally offered and one is not obligated to accept it.

The resources need to be diverted to those who need them to allow quality to be increased. I did not need a 23 year old girl turning up on my doorstep with a few minutes notice, and late.

She couldn't explain her role, didn't listen, filled out forms, was disinterested in the baby and a total waste if space. When I did need help, (infective mastitis) I was told she wasn't an expert yet that hadn't stopped her lecturing about the importance of breastfeeding.

Sorry - my response to you was very grumpy! I apologise. And yes I agree, I think the fact she refused the midwives is a massive red flag and could have caused serious issues. But that leaves me confused about the timeline; surely intervention should have happened at that stage? If baby is nearly a year old why now? Unless something else has been flagged? It doesn’t really make any sense. But we can’t support OP unless she gives the full story unfortunately!