Four year old unkind to children he doesn’t know

[onlymsrabbit]

I don’t know what to do about this.

My DS is fine at nursery, has a nice group of friends and seems popular. No concerns from nursery.

If I’m at a park or soft play with him though, he can be really unkind to other children, randomly pushing them over or kicking. I don’t understand why and he won’t tell me either.

You sound really worn down by his behaviour, which is not surprising, but he is only 4! You are going to have all sorts of difficult behaviour to deal with over the years, so I think you need more weapons in your arsenal to deal with him.

Are there are parenting courses nearby?

Is he better when he’s out with his dad? Does he behave worse for you?

OK well then the article I read was obviously wrong here which was I thought staying with the child while they calmed down . What is it then?

It really sounds like you decided he was a monster labelling him against what everyone else around him says. Your negativity will pass to him. Have you asked for support with how to deal with him?

It's not talking at him about what he did wrong it's helping him label his emotions and finding calming things

Some kids are just more challenging than others OP - I’ve got teens now but one of mine was like this to a degree though he was a biter . He is my most anxious and insecure child though as has become more and more apparent as he’s matured . The fact that your child targets strangers as mine did or rivals for attention illustrates that . Will have a think and come back later with any bright ideas as I need to go out now

Of course he isn’t a monster.

He can be very unkind, even when unprovoked.

He is very physical and can be destructive, sometimes intentionally, often unintentionally through carelessness or boisterous behaviour.

He can be very defiant and difficult when challenged on this, and lately I would say aggressive.

He can also be very sweet and caring: I’ve seen him be extraordinarily patient with young children sometimes. He is kind to animals and loves them. He can be very patient and wait nicely. He isn’t doomed.

But. He is notably worse with DH and I and when it’s me with both children. Things have really been hard over Easter and this bank holiday as that’s naturally happened a lot. He’s also had an ear infection which is always a problem. However he doesn’t take it out on children at nursery and I’m trying to work out what it is about being with me (!) that triggers him.

Obviously it’s easy to say I am the problem and maybe that’s true but even so that’s not the whole story. I need to know what specifically I’m doing ‘wrong’ so I can put it right. I get it’s frustrating if I’m saying I’ve tried this and that but I have. He isn’t a monster and he isn’t walking around being unkind all the time. That’s what’s hard to understand really!

Yes and I’ve explained to you that you can’t do that. He gets angrier and angrier the more you speak. Even if you’re just there and not saying anything it makes him angry.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I do think he is tricky in some ways, hopefully this will only really be at home not school. DH and I were saying yesterday how much calmer DD is at this age (it was when they were in bed and a photo of DS at a similar age to DDs now came up on the screensaver of the TV, we weren’t just criticising randomly.)

So it's you he wants, when he has you he's fine if your not an option it's fine does he need reassurance from you that when his sibling is around you love and need your big boy, was he part of caring for baby helping you?

I don’t know. That’s what I’m trying to work out.

That's where I'd start to look think about what I was doing before etc have you someone who can observe? Difficult as it's hard not to feel it's negative....it's not it's a common problem

I witnessed a child push another onto grass and the kid fell awkwardly and broke their arm. You really are minimising the risk your child poses to others. A hard shove off the top of a slide (another scenario you described) could also result in similar consequences.

Rule charts can be picture based rather than written- you’re incredibly quick to dismiss every suggestion (with distain/mocking) and have become fixed in your belief that it’s “just him” rather than extremely poor behaviour that you can impact/change as his parent.

Not intending to be harsh (though I’m aware it sounds it), I just don’t understand how you’re ok with accepting this without being much keener to help him.

School will be full of kids he doesn’t know that well so if that’s his trigger he needs much more support and intervention before he ends up ostracised and spending his lunchtimes alone in the classroom with a TA rather than playing with his friends outside. He wasnt “born bad”- he needs help.

I have been where you are 2 years ago with my now 6 year old, so I understand your frustration. I never once thought my child was simply a bully though. That seems insane to me to think of your tiny 4 year old.

I did a parenting course for parents dealing with challenging behaviour at the time and it actually helped a lot. If you can look into something like this, the people who give these courses will help you get to the bottom of it and find the cause of the problem and slowly you may help improve his behavior, or you may realize he has ADHD and needs additional support.

If he is angry at being challenged or told off, allow him to let out the anger in a safe place. If you put him on a time out and he lashes out in anger, that doesn't take away the value of the time out. Tell him you understand how frustrated he is and mummy is frustrated and upset too. Once he calms down you need to talk about how he would feel if someone pushed him. If he gets angry again, let him be angry and let all the anger out. You need to be patient and persevere until you can discuss how he thinks being shoved makes you feel.

Like others have said, you should give lots of compliments and often tell him what a kind lovely boy he is. Hearing you speak about him in positive ways will make him want to be how you describe him.

Just be aware if there's additional needs or ADHD what you need to do may be different.

My child at 6 is now so lovely most of the time, when she used to kick, punch and regularly bite her dad (and sometimes me).

Yours will be fine too. He is still very very little.

Some children respond better with carrots than sticks. Mine does. Changing her behaviour was easier when I promised rewards for her good behaviour and praise her for it. I used sticker charts to track and show her achievements and promised to give her a reward once she completes a certain number of them. I made it a big thing when she obtained a sticker - praised her for it, asked her to choose which sticker she'd like, asker her to stick it on the chart and counted them so she knew how many more she needed to get rewards. From what I know, nursery/school uses this approach a lot. Some children simply thrive on praise.

He isn’t simply a bully , it’s probably far more complex than that , I hadn’t picked up on the fact he’s your elder one - my tricky one is my youngest . I would be minded to concentrate on making sure he knows he’s still special and secure - especially as it seems like your DD is easier. On the other hand you do need to Explain the consequences of bad behaviour . 4/5 is old enough to be told that if he pushes someone off a slide he could break them and the practicalities of what that would involve . It’s really important to explain consequences not just give time out type punishments . In reality the age of criminal responsibility is 10 - I didn’t shy away from telling my kids that .

If it’s any comfort my biter is not a mean teen , he’s pretty empathetic and the only person he fights with is his older brother . He is still harder work but I don’t feel that he is ‘going wrong’ - he does have potential to be a pretty special human being- so does your kid x

Hi - does he have recurring ear infections ? My DS2 did and also the school tests showed up that his hearing was below standard - we were referred and finally released as being ok when he was in yr5 . Maybe coincidence - may not be 🤷🏻‍♀️

@batt3nb3rg
The reason is not irrelevant. If you can figure out a reason the situation can be avoided or gone about differently. If the reason is an overstimulated child then alternatives can be found. The child will not be receptive to the same punishment as a child who is not over stimulated. Cause and effect may take trial and error in this situation. You don't keep doing the same thing when you know the result and then punish the child...... that makes no sense.

Ps also the fact that you are trying to work out what’s going on and how to deal with it means that you are already one step ahead even if it doesn’t feel like it . Good luck op

This

but if there is a disconnect between understanding that stranger kids are valuable and will be injured and whether or not that matters then just punishing doesn’t work , time out was useless for my now 15 year old - he just laughed . There is a risk that giving OP time out type consequences just makes him more resentful and hence more problematic . He views it as him being wronged . I personally think OP needs to spend a lot of time explaining why behaviour is wrong - I know that’s hard work and wearying as I’ve been there

Does he seem to do it in an aggressive/angry way? Or in an attention seeking way? Some might say it doesn’t matter as the outcome is the same but understanding the motive would go towards helping to prevent it happening.

I can empathise. My 3.5 year old had a speech delay and his ‘way of engaging’ with other kids was to push/shove them with a big smile on his face - obviously not acceptable but as you know yourself it can happen REALLY fast and even when I’m stood right next to him. Most parents are understanding when you apologise and show a consequence (eg leaving) but I’ve had a few angry parents and I now completely avoid soft play because of it. But as you say we can’t stay locked inside forever and avoid every public place there may be another child. He’s gotten much better over the last 6 months as speech is getting better but it’s hard isn’t it.

Do you work so when he is with you he wants to have your full attention. And dislikes DH or Dsibling sharing your attention.
does he mix with older children. I assume the children he pushes are small.

@Aoppley can you recommend a specific parenting course?

How is he with your other child? Did his unkindness come more to the fore more after your younger one was born? Apologies if I got the ages wrong, I'm not sure if you've said but I have assumed his sibling is younger. It may well be that his behaviour is attention seeking, more specifically, he is seeking more attention from you.

I have two boys with a two-year age gap. For an incredibly stressful six months or so when my eldest was about 3-4 he began acting out when we were in public because - I am surmising - his brother needed more attention at his age (1-2) when out and about. It was luckily just a phase - where any attention from me was preferred even if it was a telling off. The motivation may also explain why he behaves at nursery, when he is with you one on one, and why he doesn't express reasons for his behaviour (probably feels unable to say because his sibling is the main factor). Apologies if this has been mentioned/discussed up thread, I've only read your posts and skimmed some others.

Have you tried role playing with toys to discuss his behaviour?