Four year old unkind to children he doesn’t know

[onlymsrabbit]

I don’t know what to do about this.

My DS is fine at nursery, has a nice group of friends and seems popular. No concerns from nursery.

If I’m at a park or soft play with him though, he can be really unkind to other children, randomly pushing them over or kicking. I don’t understand why and he won’t tell me either.

I did speak to them, just last week. Thank you though.

He hasn’t always been calm at nursery but I thought as he’d got older he’d outgrown hurting other children but I guess not.

I think it’s FAR more likely that he is like this in all settings and that nursery doesn’t see the issue because they don’t monitor his behaviour closely enough.

Keep going to playgrounds and places but I’d opt for ones that you can take a pushchair to so you have somewhere he can be made to sit.

Be clear children who push others down the slide aren’t allowed on the slide, etc etc Do you highlight when he’s good? Eg “Dh we went to the park today and ds was amazing, he played so nicely with the other children. I honestly think he’s brilliant at making friends and being kind.” If DH can respond with an anecdote where he has also witnessed behaviour that he admires, so much the better. Reframing experiences and highlighting the good is a really effective way of seeding ideas about what is desirable.

This.

there needs to be consequence for the actions but without finding the trigger for the actions a consequence is unlikely to work.

Ot sounds like he goes in to fight or flight mode - in this case fight.

Have a look at zones of regulation and emotions and see if visuals support him to explain how’s he’s feeling so you can give him alternative and appropriate ways to react.

Changing behaviour is more than just consequence - it needs a 2 pronged approach.

@Ohthatsabitshit it isn’t like that. It’s really difficult to explain. I do believe he’s fine at nursery as he’s regularly fine with me. I do think he’s got anger in him and I can’t reach it. He probably feels very frustrated a lot of the time. But it isn’t a loss of control, he’s come bounding up to me all smiles in the past and then an irate carer comes to me telling me he’s been kicking or shoving.

He is four, five this year. He is way, way past the age of pushchairs, he isn’t a toddler.

Saying you feel he has anger in him is strange all children have times they lash out or misbehave be careful not to get into the wrong frame of mind about him that could set him up to fail as your attitude can be felt......expect peanuts get peanuts.

I wasn’t suggesting he’d enjoy the pushchair. I was suggesting you use it as a place for him to wait while his siblings play.

I know you weren’t but he would actually! However it’s just a bit - why would I insist he sits in a pushchair of all things? I’m not understanding why he should sit in a pushchair. Anyway it isn’t important.

If you go to a peanut factory it’s reasonable to expect peanuts. Acknowledging that your child can be in all honesty difficult isn’t dooming him to a life of failure or whatever.

I do love DS and I do understand that a lot of the time his behaviour is triggered by pain or discomfort. Sometimes this is understandable, sometimes it isn’t always understandable at the time but is later and sometimes, it does just appear to be random and sporadic. He can be very, very challenging with me as well and while I do try my best I also am acknowledging here, anonymously and honestly that it does take its toll on me and can be very upsetting

I would try and look for a pattern because there will be one. For example is aggressive towards children when they are unknown to him and they get within a meter of him. Or is aggressive when kids he doesn’t know makes eye contact with him. If you find a more specific trigger it will be easier to overcome. I think I would be very actively engaging with the child and try and have a good outing with no problems by just always being the attention point (this will be seriously tiring though) and then heap on the praise. I. General try and notice him being good (not always easy) and be very happy about boring small things as sometime praise is the way to go. It’s horrible to have to apologise to other people but you don’t need to be mortified about it. If that’s how you’re feeling and that’s what is leading to your relationship breakdown. I’ve had kids hurt my child actually loads of kids are soooo mean and what I want is to see the parent is making an attempt to
correct the behaviour but this doesn’t have to be a big punishment I also do think badly of the parents unless they are not supervising at all.

Because you said you can’t make him sit down with you it just becomes a battle and you lose the meaning of it in the struggle to keep him sat down.

To be honest it’s really convenient for you to characterise this as “he’s just not very nice” or that “your relationship has broken down” or whatever other get out of doing the work rationale you can come up with. Small children need consistent calm leadership in how to behave, and frankly this is going to be infinitely harder at 6 or 9 or 12, so get on with it.

Oh I’m doing the work, I just genuinely am not understanding why I should be taking a pushchair and why I can make him sit on that if I can’t sit on a tree stump or small wall or picnic bench or whatever’s around? I honestly am not sure why that’s come up.

I am allowed to have my own feelings and fears and worries and verbalise them. It doesn’t mean I’m opting out of parenting.

The point is that your child can be strapped into a pushchair.
You talk of child bounding back to you followed by carer of his latest victim. Why didn’t you observe that misdemeanour?

Have you considered that he is uncomfortable with unknown children, so goes nuclear to keep them away? I think you need to consider only going to these places when you can have another adult with you to do one on one with each child. Then one sticks like glue with him to stop any violence immediately.

And yes, I know that's not the most practical, but it will mean you can observe the triggers better and ensure other children don't get hurt. Any day out, even to calm seeming places, are a break from routine with different people, food, noises etc. It's a lot more to process at 4.

Strapped in a pushchair - come on, he is five this year. He could easily get out of that, and if not end up being a danger to himself by flinging him around so desperately that the pushchair flies over! Pushchairs really aren’t designed for school age children.

As the threads evolved I’ve been using it more as a way of getting some feelings out. I worry a lot. I worry my parenting has caused this and that I’m doing or not doing something I should be. I worry about his future. That is probably unfounded but I still feel it.

He doesn’t go nuclear at all @HarryVanderspeigle - it’s quite sneaky when it happens (it doesn’t always.)

Nobody is suggesting you aren’t allowed your own feelings and fears. You probably need to listen as well as emote if you want things to change though. There been lots of good advice and just doing what you have been doing isn’t going to change anything. Being a mum is really really hard work and me upsetting you isn’t going to help when you’re in the thick of it so I’m going to bow out and I hope someone else can find the right support to hive you.

I’m not trying to denigrate anyone’s kindly meant advice but some things aren’t possible or have already been tried but have not changed behaviour. That’s why I’m saying that maybe the focus isn’t on changing behaviour but managing it as best I can.

Writing your child off as an unpleasant bully who isn’t worth the effort at four years old is horrific.

How is your own mental health?

Have you asked if he understands why behaving the way does is wrong?

Have you done anything to address it between incidents? (Books cartoons about why hitting is bad/ playing nicely, praising him when he plays kindly with children he doesn’t know, etc)

Have you tried time in rather than time out?

Then you will have to keep a much closer eye on him.
You talk of child bounding back to you followed by carer of his latest victim. Why didn’t you observe that misdemeanour?

Yes, it doesn’t tend to work because he gets very angry. He really doesn’t take being told he’s wrong well (I don’t obviously phrase it like that but you know what I mean.) He’s been like that since being tiny - gets furious very quickly.

I did, I think you misunderstood.

Sorry OP. I'd be absolutely furious if my DC behaved in the way you described with the slide incident. What would you have done if that child was seriously injured?!

You need to get really firm.

He has clear boundaries at nursery.

He thinks he can get away with it with you.

How is he at home? Is he well behaved? Tackling behaviour at home is a lot easier and less embarrassing than outside with an audience of other parents. But imo, parents will judge you more for not parenting, than strict parenting.

Could he undo a pushchair buckle? If not, I get he is really too big but if he tips the pushchair over on the grass how hurt could he really get. He will only do it a couple of times.

You need to follow him everywhere - watch for triggers, intervene, get him to apologise. Try to stay calm, wait out the tantrum - try not to get to shouting as this is a reaction he is likely expecting.

Do you have a clear set of simple rules at home? Visable say on the fridge?

Lots of praise for good behaviour will also help.

Pushing boundaries is typical 3/4 year old behaviour. Nip it in the bud now. You might need to wait out lots of 40min tantrums but that time will pay dividends to you and your whole family in the long run. Don't give in.

It's a hard age. It's OK to feel exhausted by it.

Just picking up on this OP - that would be quite a disrespectful / condescending way of your DH to reply to you if that was the case. Hopefully that's not characteristic of your relationship in general? And what is your DH doing to help manage his son's behaviour?

I'm just wondering if there's a possibility that your son is learning that you are someone that can be disrespected because of what he is seeing modelled elsewhere? Sorry if this is off the mark here!

Seriously injured from pushing someone onto grass?

Anyway, you can be furious, it won’t change things for you or me so it’s a bit pointless.

He can’t read yet so not sure what rules on the fridge would do!

He’s actually fine one to one with me. If the younger one is there or DH is there as well he’s horrendous so I guess that’s the trigger, but I can’t really engineer a world where neither of them exist!

That isn't time in.