Four year old unkind to children he doesn’t know

[onlymsrabbit]

I don’t know what to do about this.

My DS is fine at nursery, has a nice group of friends and seems popular. No concerns from nursery.

If I’m at a park or soft play with him though, he can be really unkind to other children, randomly pushing them over or kicking. I don’t understand why and he won’t tell me either.

It is good but I have tried and nothing has changed.

It isn’t realistic to stay home but I’m starting to think I’m either going to have to do that or pay money I really can’t afford to up his nursery hours as I really am losing my mind a bit with him at the moment!

Do you think he was startled?

He may find these environments too much. Many young children do and then they grow up a bit more.

Did you see her coming? You could for example step between the two children in this situation. You could also narrate 'Oh someone is coming to see us, it's ok'.

I honestly don’t think it was too much. It was a quiet pond - if I can’t take him to places like that then I genuinely can’t go anywhere!

it’s possible she startled him.

he’s attended birthday parties, raucous affairs in church halls and been fine, soft play when it’s busy is fine but then other times it’s quiet and he targets a particular child.

I can hear what you're saying about a wall

Most things are a phase. If it isn't a phase, you would find out from nursery or school.

Are there any activities he likes doing with you that can't result in these problems - swimming, or sitting reading at the library, or walks just you two?

I have really tried. We actually had quite a nice time at an activity just before the Easter holiday and then I had two weeks of the most horrific behaviour from him which I put down to being out of routine but it’s ongoing now.

Can I ask - you say he ‘just won’t’ sit beside you as a time out. If you take his hand when he’s just done something, and don’t let go while explaining the consequences and what’s going to happen, what happens?

Stop him. If he was putting his hands on a hot stove rather than a small child, you’d be in there fast enough.

This isn’t a discussion thing, it’s just-good-enough-parenting.

You reveal your innate hostility to your child when you permit violence.

He’d twist, squirm, fight to be free. I can obviously hold onto him to a certain extent but then it becomes like a sort of who is going to win a physical altercation rather than a chance to calm down and think about actions.

Don’t make excuses. He’s 4, not a baby, being hot or tired is not an excuse. Zero tolerance, he does it he immediately sits out and watches the fun, if your other child is younger he’ll have to sit with you but not join in.

In the past I've had to hold a child firmly to stop them getting hurt you do what you have to do holding them until they calm down.

Is there nothing that triggers him?
Youve said that hes unkind to other children and its frequent but random.

The example you gave was of a girl running up to him and him pushing her away, which to me is neither unkind or random.

Is there anything that you would say was a common factor in these events.
Does he prefer to do things away from other kids entirely, or is it mainly if they do something that alarms him.
What is his understanding and speech like?

Hi OP, it may be worth getting in touch with a child psychologist/therapist. They use various techniques (sandtray, art, small world people etc.) to offer alternative ways of communicating. They usually update you on the child’s progress as opposed to process, however it may offer ways to help you help him in those tough moments. Although there’s a cost involved, it won’t be forever and it’s a good investment if the therapist can provide some guidance. I get it’s hard, you really want to support him, but you don’t know how to. Best of luck OP x

You reveal your hostility to your child when you allow violence what does this actually mean??

Is it always when running around like park or soft play?

Does he have sensory issues?

Thing is you cant anticipate everything of hes ok mostly. Bur i dont think he should be runnong around softplay without you with him.

I would say perhaps we cant go to xyz if you are going to behave unkindly to children trying to be friendly.
If you feel they are coming to close maybe step back.
we had awful issues with dc1 generally very adhd behaviour but worst she was awful at school (biting, scratching and hitting.) None of which she had done before. Looking back perhaps she was seeing these behaviours. But mainly she will never tell the teacher so a kid would be mean to her and she would hit them on the head!

does he tell on other kids?
perhaps he is doing some things at nursery but they think its accidental or tha t the other child caused it so like in your example of kid running up and maybe getting too close.

The point with holding him is that no one’s actually learning anything then, are they?

So I decide he’s going to come and sit down and he twists and squirms and it ends up a fight (during which time dc2 gets bored and wanders off and I have to manage that) and at the end of ten, twenty minutes after red faces and screaming and crying everyone’s forgotten the original point to this exercise.

Increasingly I am thinking it’s just him, he’s always been physical and maybe - horrible to say but maybe he’s just not very pleasant as a person. Some people are prone to bullying and meanness and maybe he is.

And yeah we haven’t been to soft play for ages.

Personally I would stick him in nursery full time and limit interactions at home with other kids for your own sanity. Maybe take kids out separately at the weekend if possible. Then I’d try again in 6 months. It may break the habit. Children do change, and I’d not put myself through this.

To be fair op you just keep making excuses. Time out, leave, every single time until he learns. If he grows into a bully, it sounds like you'll just shrug it off as it's 'part of his personality'. Parent!

I don’t think I’m making excuses so much as explaining how things are. Sometimes you can’t insist a child comes and sits down on ‘time out’ and if it doesn’t alter or change the behaviour is there a point to it? That’s a rhetorical question by the way.

He isn’t going around the place hitting and kicking at will. You could (hypothetically) go to soft play ten times and nine times he’d play really nicely. I actually thought he’d stopped but we’ve had a few incidents lately that make me realise he hasn’t and I wonder if he’s just being mean when no one can see.

I am trying to parent. I’m avoiding places I can’t control his behaviour eg soft play. I’m removing him from situations and taking him away. It’s not changing him though and that’s why I’m saying it probably is just him.

I would love to @Wasvular but I can’t afford it. It’s already £420 for three days a week and that’s with thirty funded hours; it would be probably more than double that for another two days because those hours wouldn’t be funded. I’d be looking at a bill of nearly £1000 for just him as well as DDs.

A lot of this isn’t just ‘tell me what to do’, I’m also writing about how I feel. I feel hugely disappointed. I wanted to have a nice child and it’s horrible thinking maybe he isn’t. I wanted to be able to take pride in his achievements and to have a good relationship with him. Instead, I have a defiant, rude child who is foul to me and not particularly pleasant to others although this is inconsistent. And of course I’ll keep trying but I am allowed to have my own feelings about how things have turned out as well.

Have you talked to his nursery about his behaviour outside it? I’m wondering if there’s techniques they use that work for your son, which is why he’s able to behave kindly there. An honest conversation about the difficulties you’re experiencing might give you more insight into your son. Don’t give up yet, and please don’t despair, there will be a way to if not fix then manage this. Start with the nursery

It's not just part of his personality if nursery manage to manage his behaviour. He's pushing boundaries by the sound of it, he's also learnt you simply leave despite what his sibling wants so perhaps he even uses it as a tool to get what he wants if he is ready to leave. You've had some good advice on here, it's hard to accept and reflect when people suggest your parenting plays a part, but for his sake as well as the children he sees out and about take time to do so.

Where is his dad, can you talk to him?

I am allowed to have my own feelings about how things have turned out as well. Things haven't 'turned out' anything yet, he's still at a very young age.

Thanks @SaltyandSweet . I have, and they are surprised. They have suggested jealousy which is definitely possible.

@Pikablue the thing is if I say oh we stay (and sometimes we do because we have to) that would be wrong as well. I don’t actually think there’s any real thought going into it. He just sort of does it. I saw him a few weeks ago chase a little boy up a slide and shove him down it full force. No idea what the child had done but I guess the point is that he wasn’t doing it coldly if that makes sense. Actually none of it makes sense 😂 All I can do is manage it as best I can. At the moment I avoid soft play / busy places, now I have to add going for walks and to the park to that list. I’m not totally sure what else to do tbh.

He is @verycloakanddaggers but equally after four and a half years I can say I think I have a sense of who he is and unfortunately what he’s going to turn out like. Obviously when he was little thought it was just ‘normal’ toddler behaviour, everyone said it as and even then I didn’t think it was. And I think I was right. I couldn’t talk to DH, I’d just get told not to be silly.

It's worth speaking to nursery, they won't judge but it's very possible they have a 'strategy' in place which is why it isn't an issue there- he won't be the first nor the last at his age.