DD3.5 spat in my face and I'm not sure I handled it right

[TruffleMonkey]

Tonight just before bed she started spitting and wouldn't stop despite me and her dad both telling her to. She spat on my fresh clothes laid out for work tomorrow and when I got down to her level to talk to her she spat straight in my face.

As it was bedtime the only consequence I could think of was to tell her that I wasn't going to put her to bed tonight and it broke her heart. I always do her bedtime routine with her. She started crying hysterically and apologising and I told her firmly that I wasn't going to have her spitting in people's faces and now I needed some away time until I calmed down and that she was safe going to bed with Daddy. Then I went downstairs and heard her howling for ages before finally going to sleep.

I feel so awful. Like I've just taught her that I will abandon her when she acts out. Could anyone make me feel better or suggest anything i could do differently next time?

@Duckyfondant

How would you have responded out of interest?

Where on earth does a 3yr learn to spit at someone . It's the most disgusting offensive thing you can do to someone .

Huge difference between belting an adult and a smacked hand on a child. It wouldn't be hard enough to break bones/leave a big red hand print but I'd expect the shock of me smacking them would cement the lesson that spitting is unacceptable as I repeat I don't (and haven't) ever smacked my children so it would be a short sharp shock. That's certainly how I found it as a child and each of the 3 times I got a smacked hand still now in my 40s stands out

You did well OP.

Thankfully the law doesn’t agree with you. ‘Battered and bruised’ is not the threshold. Physical violence on a 3 year old by an adult is not ok.

She's a child. She's barely existed on the planet. They push boundaries and they also get carried away when they are losing control of their world. Impulse control is lacking.

My 3 year old is painfully mild mannered and sweet. That's just his personality. We love to have a little play fight and wrestle when he's feeling giddy and needs to roll about and be tickled and giggle his head off to get some energy out. One day he lost his little mind and grabbed my face, hard. Not like him at all and a big shock to me.

All fun immediately stopped and my face changed instantly. He knew he had done wrong. I very firmly said "that hurt me VERY much. Would you like me to grab your face and hurt you?" He said no and immediately apologised. The message was heard and received. That was enough. I said "I think we'll stop playing just now because you got carried away and we need to have a break and calm down. Will you ever grab my face again?" Again he said no and apologised, and god love him he stroked my face to make sure I was ok. I said I was and that was alright, thank you for saying sorry. We swiftly moved on to something else.

It wasn't his "fault". He's learning how to use and move his body and got carried away in the thrill of wrestling and tickling. My role in that moment was not to retaliate by smacking him. That is utterly pointless. How can I teach my child genuine empathy and socialise him if I say to him "don't hurt people" by hurting him?

No I think you sent a very clear message to her ! It’s important that that type of behaviour is stamped out. You didn’t scream at her or physically hurt her and she was sent to bed with dad so had someone there.

You haven’t done anything wrong here, and hopefully you can both discuss it tomorrow and explain why that behaviour is so wrong and why you done what you done.

Smacking is not a criminal offence in England yet.

I wouldnt use it for spitting like. It's a more trying to run into the road thing.

I think you were very calm under the circumstances.

Spitting is disgusting. Spitting in someone's face is abhorrent and you did right to put a stop to it immediately.

She hasn't learnt that you'll abandon her. Because tomorrow you'll talk about it and give her a hug.

However she has learnt that some things are a definite no; that people, including mummy, have boundaries and that her behaviour has consequences.

Handled like a pro - well done x

Honestly, I think all the "most disgusting thing she could possibly do" talk is really hyperbolic - we're talking about a 3yo. Toddlers act out sometimes in physical ways, and I think all the shock and offence on display here is pretty disingenuous.

I think you did fine, OP - in principle I don't think withholding affection is a great form of punishment, but I can imagine you were pretty angry (as I would have been in the same situation), and walking away is often the best option. I think it's unlikely she'll become a career spitter

Of course it’s an offence. It’s assault, the same as an adult.

@ttcat37

It is certainly illegal here in Scotland but I think in England you still have the "reasonable chastisement" loophole.

It's not a criminal offence in England yet. Until then, save the dramatics.

It’s not a loophole really- I don’t think a court would find any excuse reasonable for an adult to assault a 3 year old.

Of course it’s an offence, under multiple acts. I suggest you do a little more research before you continue hitting your kids. I’m happy to be called dramatic for saying that adults shouldn’t be assaulting 3 year olds.

@ttcat37

Of course they would if it was deemed reasonable chastisement under English law. I am against smacking but I still recognise the law.

A smack on the hand is assault. Any kind of smack is assault.

If you made a mistake at work - one that was "so far across the line" - would it be ok for your boss to smack you?

If you were having a bad day and said something to your partner that really offended them, would they be ok to smack you?

The answer to both of those is an obvious no, therefore there's no excuse for hitting a child - especially as a child is even more defenceless and vulnerable than an adult!

I'm sorry you were smacked as a child. I was too, and it doesn't teach us right from wrong, or why a behaviour is wrong - it teaches us to fear the punishment for the wrongdoing. It is conditioning through fear, not genuine discipline.

Still not illegal dude.

Disgusting. How is it appropriate to assault someone just to try and get your point across?

If you smacked your child, and DH disagreed and felt it was “way past a line” should it then be ok for him to hit you? Would that teach you anything other than to be scared about pissing your DH off?

It’s so outrageously stupid that anyone STILL believes that physically assaulting someone is a legitimate lesson. Worrying.

edited to add… without letting abusive idiots derail this thread by telling you how they would justify assaulting their children, you did fine OP. I can understand your worry about her feeling abandoned, but you could also frame it that you’ve shown her boundaries, and acceptable ways to be treated, respect etc. It was a perfectly natural consequence to unacceptable behaviour in the moment.

Spitting is horrible, but try and remember that children do not even begin to develop impulse control until they're between 3.5 and 4 (closer to 4) - and even then, that's just the start of a very long process! There's no wilful ignorance of social rules here - she felt the impulse to spit, so she spat.

You were putting space between you and her because she couldn't control her spitting around you, so the only thing you can do is leave the space around her. That's a logical consequence to her actions; she will make the connection between the behaviour and your absence.

Tomorrow morning you hug her and you can talk about it. You can emphasise that you needed to move away from her because she carried on spitting; it reinforces that link between the behaviour and the consequence. That doesn't necessarily mean she'll never do it again - impulse control! - but you've established the consequence, and you can be consistent in applying this every time.

You did well. You didn't shout, you established a logical consequence, you followed through with it, and then worried whether you'd done right or not. Every single one of those is the hallmark of a mum doing her best for her child! ❤️

‘Reasonable chastisement’ is a defence- it does not mean the offence has not been committed.
What do you think is a good reason for an adult to physically assault a 3 year old? I can’t think of any, other than very extreme circumstances.
The ‘reasonable chastisement’ defence only applies where there is no visible injury. There are other offences which assaulting a child would or could fall under, such as ABH, where there isn’t a defence, or Child Cruelty, which also doesn’t carry a defence.

@gamerchick Still is, ‘dude’. Common Assault, or ABH depending on injury, Child Cruelty, take your pick.

You handled it well.......kids learning g that if they aren't behaving nicely towards people then they may not want to spend time around t hem is an important lesson to learn.

@ttcat37

I don't agree with smacking. I've already said that so you can calm down.

I'm just stating the it is not yet illegal in England as it is here in Scotland.

Sounds like you handled it fine. She cried because she felt bad and that’s how small children deal with negative and uncomfortable feelings. Have a chat and a cuddle tomorrow in the morning.