Daughter touching herself in school aibu to think this is related to teachers and the bullying?

[Zd24]

Hi so long story, sorry.
my daughter is 9 and currently in year 4.
shes bright, always loved school and her teachers have always loved her. Never had a problem and never heard anything bad about her from anyone always nothing but praise. In September starts year 4, within the first week is having a couple of girls coming up to her saying horrible things, dd tells her teacher numerous times in the first 1 week of year 4 that these couple of girls where being unkind and it was upsetting her, nothing was done. The next week dd again went a couple of times to a number of different teachers and again nothing was done. I went in myself to speak to a teacher on the 2nd week of year 4 as my daughter came out of school hysterical from comments about her skin colour and body hair ( dd is half Pakistani so naturally very dark thick hair and tanned skin, she is absolutely beautiful!) the school isn’t mixed, we are one of the only Muslim families.things seemed to calm down for a couple of weeks, I will mention these unkind comments and problems with these same couple of girls started towards the end of year 3 but dd had always been managed to resolve them by herself. Fast forward to October 2023 parents evening, I go in expecting to hear nothing but good things about dd as usual, I did get the usual, she’s very bright and polite, then the teacher started saying “ oh and she’s still touching herself” I laughed for a minute then it hit me and I said “what??” As I’ve never ever heard this before. She said “ oh she’s still touching herself under tables and we have to keep reminding her school isn’t the place” I said “ no one has ever brought this up to me before and I have never been told this before” she said “ oh I’m sorry, I thought you knew, she was doing it in year 3 too, sorry if there has been miscommunication “ I didn’t really like this teachers tone and got an off feeling from her right from the get go, my daughter had an extremely good close relationship with her previous year 3 teacher and I got on well with that teacher and she never even once mentioned this to me so I didn’t know what to believe. I asked dd, she said she does do it sometimes, doesn’t put her hands down her tights just rubs on the outside of her tights, I obviously told her this wasn’t ok to be doing at school and she broke down crying saying she doesn’t know she does it and it’s because she’s stressed and so unhappy at school and that she constantly tells teachers, numerous different teachers but nothing ever gets done and that she just wants to enjoy school and wants to be left alone but she can’t cope with it. I spoke to her teacher and even the headteacher and was told it got sorted. Heard nothing since October but my daughter has still been coming home nearly every day from school saying she dislikes her teacher, that she seems to just hate her and she always seems to have a problem with her, and also complaining numerous times a week that she is getting bullied, isn’t happy, that she’s reported it too a number of different teachers but nothing gets done, this is almost daily she comes out of school complaining about her teacher not seeming to like her and the same 2 couple of girls. Today I get a phone call from the debuty headteacher and I naturally panic, she told me my daughter was ok but she has to call me because my daughter is still touching herself under tables and I need to discuss with her that this isn’t appropriate behaviour, I told the teacher I have spoke to her in October when the teacher spoke to me and that my daughter broke down and told me she is stressed and it helps her calm down because she’s unhappy at school, I told her I told my daughter this was wrong and she shouldn’t be doing this at school no matter the reason but we’d try and get this sorted. I told her my daughter is getting bullied and not happy at school and that she is coming home every day complaining, she has told me she will speak to my daughter and investigate into this but I just don’t know what to do.

Ive been crying all morning, the teacher said to me in the past that she does it under tables so is the teacher just looking at my daughter under tables or is she doing her job of teaching for her to be keep saying this?I don’t get it.

im waiting till dd gets out of school to hear her side of the story but she is complaining about her teacher and the same 2 couple of girls daily. Should I be taking this further? Im so upset, does anyone have any advice of what I should do?

@Zd24 Don't take the photo to the school. It won't help her. I think you need to remover her with a view to homeschool in the short term. I think you need to finish on her MH. She is clearly struggling and needs therapy.

I would be absolutely fuming with the school, they are ignoring, not only bullying, but racist behaviour. In your shoes, I would take it to the LA, as the school seems incapable of acting on your complaints.
My DD had a thing she used to do when stressed, I took her to a counsellor, who has 1 session with her, and it got much, much better.

Can she wear trouser as opposed to tights and skirt is that an option?

Can she have a fidget toy in class?

Can she swop to another class in the school while you wait for a transfer

I do know 2 girls who used to do this. And both had been sexually abused. But again it can be self soothing. Could you take her to a play therapist? They are invaluable! Also I would personally take her out of school.

This is exactly the sort of help that you need to be asking for.

OP, I believe you that the school are not doing what they can and what they should be all over bullying and addressing it. I know this feels unfair. You have to handle this the right way though because if you go in fighting and demanding without one ounce of open ness to other possible issues then they do close ranks.

I totally understand the need to do this with schools as I have an Autistic ADHD child.

There are some excellent silent fidget gadgets on Amazon. These are so helpful. There is something called a wobble cushion that school should have. She can sit on it or have her feet on it. This might help distract her.

Ask to move class. Ask for help because this problem I don't believe will go away even if the bullies go away.

There was a girl who was obviously Autistic at sons primary. She often had incidents involving hands on herself at inappropriate times and moments. The school understood she was different although the mum seemed in denial. They won't automatically jump to abuse as the reason but you need to understand it will be considered. I'm not saying this is absolutely not happening and you don't know it as I'm not in your life. I'm saying you need to ask for support even if they are not doing their job. This is very important you do it and I would put the request for support in writing in an email.

A GP and school are in no position to tell you your child is not Autistic or ADHD with certainty so if there's the slightest inkling in your mind you have to push to assess via a professional.

I think that might backfire.

Just get her out of there as soon as you can.

Thank you for all your replies.

they have given her a fidget toy, it was then when they told me this that I addressed the bullying issues with the deputy head.

I’ve just had a talk with my daughter and she broke down in tears saying she didn’t tell me she was still doing it because she didn’t want to upset me, she says she doesn’t put her hands down her tights, she said she just touches on top over her skirt. She was very distressed when we was talking about this, she said she only gets this feeling at school that she wants to touch herself and doesn’t ever get this feeling at home. I am worried about her because she isn’t seeming like herself when I was talking to her, I know she is only 9 but she was crying saying these girls are making her feel “useless” and there isn’t any point trying to do anything anymore because it will only make it worse.

the entire thing is breaking my heart and seeing her so upset. I’ve not shouted at her, I have asked her to tell me the truth about everything, my dd doesn’t lie to me and is open with me. She isn’t putting her hands down her tights and physically touching she is touching over her tights and and on top of her skirt. Says it’s just a weird feeling she gets, not inside but at the top. Again, says she only gets this feeling at school and says it makes her feel better, saying she is very stressed.

she is on a waiting list for another school but I’m wondering if I should start ringing around other schools tomorrow and looking at getting her moved as soon as possible? Dd is in 1-1 tuition once a week doing 11+ tuition for grammar school, she is extremely happy and no issues there and her 1-1 teacher has never had any issues or problems or anything bad to say, all this behaviour is only in school and only recently started at the same time as bullying started,but I don’t know if I’d be able to take her out temporarily to home school as I also have a 7 year old and 15 month old.

would changing classes work as the bullying is in the classroom when the teacher is supposed to be watching them but also at playtime and lunch time when the classes are mixed together so I don’t know in regards to that. Dd goes to maths with the other year 4 teacher and absolutely loves her and that teacher has had nothing but great things to say about dd and had no issues regarding this so maybe in that aspect it might help a little as dd doesn’t get on at all with her teacher.

its just so upsetting to see her like this and crying like this. Aside from the touching herself do you think I should be making a gp appointment for dd to talk about her feelings to a professional as she is now coming out with saying she feels useless and that is hard to hear. I’ve obviously never dealt with a situation like this before so it’s difficult to know what the best thing is.

@Zd24 do you have any sense instinctively that your daughter is different? Not what the school say but what you think as mum?

The GP can refer her for extra support but believe this when I tell you people are waiting years for any referral and then they often do nothing.

I would look online for a child psychiatrist, a female one is essential. I would look for one who has a vast CV and experience across various issues such as Neurodivergence, anxiety and all mental health conditions.

I don't think your daughter is crazy or anything at all by the way. But you have got to cover every possible reason. It really is not typical behaviour. She is not a bad kid or do I think there's something wrong. It is just not typical behaviour. Please just hear this. She might grow out of it, the bullying might be the only reason for it but I would not automatically go with that.

The GP will maybe try help but they can't change the fact there is hardly any help out there for kids. It's a fact. I'd definitely go to the GP and seek advice but in your shoes I'd be doing the above and arranging and paying for an appointment so you can just be sure you're covering everything. It's going to protect you and her also because you can't really trust the accuracy of everything going on in school and what they say. If safeguarding flags are being raised you also need to know exactly what is behind it.

Does she want to do the 11 plus? Does SHE really want this and the tutoring? She sounds pretty stressed to me.

Definitely take her to a psychologist so she can talk about how she's feeling. She said herself she didn't tell you because she was afraid to upset you. It would be easier for her to talk to another adult so she can speak freely without holding back thinking about your feelings.