Raising boys - advice please

[LeopardSnow]

Looking for tips / advice / guidance specifically about parenting / raising boys. I’m a woman married to a woman, and we both grew up with sisters - I have brothers too but they were much older and we weren’t kids at the same time - so basically neither of us have much experience of being / being around / raising boys.

Obviously I know all the basic parenting is the same for boys and girls and you get plenty of boys who don’t conform to stereotypes and vice versa so I don’t really need to be told to just love them and let them be themselves etc. In reality there often are some differences and especially once they get to school boys and girls will face different pressures, peer expectations and environments and I want to make sure I’m equipped to raise a happy, thriving son who feels good about being whatever sort of boy he is.

We’ve got a 3.5 year old boy and a 1.5 year old girl. Looking for any wisdom or advice from parents with boys (dad views particularly welcomed) about what challenges their boys faced, what really helped them or boy specific stuff. Any books you’d recommend found really useful would be good too.

For example a friend with boys told me she wished she’d taught her son at least the basics of football before he started school, as regardless of whether he was super into it or not, being able to play a little functioned as a sort of social currency and way to make friends

Agree with this. Football or tennis coaches eg can also play this role as well as uncles, friends etc.

As a mum of 3 boys, having grown up with just a sister and all my friends had daughters, I know how you feel! You can only do your best.

One thing I found was to try to do things with them that they're interested in. My boys all loved Minecraft and Roblox - so I opened accounts and learned to play them too. We spent many hours building these amazing worlds together, and in Roblox we just played all sorts of different games, and I was able to see for myself what the online chat was etc.

Make sure they always know how much you love them and that you are always there for them. Boys aren't always good at talking about their feelings when they get older - my eldest emailed me when he was suffering with serious anxiety in Lockdown because he didn't know how to start the conversation... but knew that he could come to me for help and having different ways to communicate with me made it possible to get him help.

Ultimately, just love him. Be guided by what he wants to do. Although my youngest wanted to do dance... all of the children's dance classes were full and despite going on waiting lists, I have never heard back years later. So any hobbies get into classes early!

Oh and if he wants to put make up on and have sparkly nails - go with it! My two youngest LOVED doing this. My husband hated it, but i called him out on his sexist attitude and asked him would he have a problem if we'd had a daughter who wanted to play dress up with men's clothes etc. I can't even remember what prompted it as I rarely wear make up - perhaps he saw his cousin with it!

I always did the rough and tumble play with my dcs when they were young.
Often this was in the form of a pillow fight, water fight in the garden, dodgeball or a tickle monster. I'd swing them around and sometimes pretend they were a clock pendulum swinging side to side, ticking down to bedtime. Those were the days

I agree that football clubs and scouts can be a positive place for boys for role models and bonding with other boys.
I've read articles that one of the reasons boys join gangs is so they can have that group bonding with other males. It does seem important to allow boys to have that space available to them if they want/need it.

One other thing I've noticed is that people often assume that boys are stronger emotionally than they are. I think it's still important to comfort and hug a boy if they're upset for as long as they need, rather than thinking they're male and should get over it in a second.

On the football thing - it's not necessary for your son to go to coaching sessions with an aim of gaining skills or making a team, but IMO it would be good for you to encourage a kick around in the park or street with others around his age.

Like it or not, football is so part of UK culture and conversation. My now adult sons were never skilled at footie but do have an interest and knowledge of the game, although both preferred to play rugby as teens.

It's not an essential life skill but a liking for the game will mean he can be pals with almost any one and have a bit of common language as he grows up. Of course many normal decent men have no interest and there's nothing wrong with that!

I don’t think pushing fashion and social media influencers onto a kid is the same thing as teaching a kid the basic rules of football, getting him a ball and making some temporary goal posts in the garden so that if football is a big thing at his school, he at least has some frame of reference for it and is not starting from zero. Not least because social media is widely understood to be harmful and football isn’t.

But to answer your question, if there was some non harmful thing that say 60% of all the girls in her class were likely to be into, and if knowing a bit about that thing would help her have the option of using it to make some friends and feel more safe and accepted while navigating starting school, would I help her by showing her the basics of that thing? Yes for sure I would. It doesn’t mean they can’t also be into other things, it’s just about giving them a range of tools and skills.

Starting school is hard enough without expecting them to be free thinking iconoclasts who know themselves fully and follow their own unique passions regardless of what others are into, aged four.

as a mum to boy/girl twins the advice I would give you is get both your kids into some sort of team sport whatever that is. great to build friendships but also so many life lessons come off the back of it.

My DS too (now 14). Don't know if it's because he grew up with two older sisters or just his character but he's never been remotely interested in play fighting or anything rough. In fact when he did karate for a while he liked the kata but hated the sparring.

Boys can have pretty challenging behavior. Remember it is often a communication of distress or need rather than naughtiness. They need to know they are valued as a person and not shamed. You can still discipline and have high standards, but the foundation of that is a safe and loving relationship where they want to please you out of love, not fear.

Boys often go through some difficult times with their mental health in their teens, but try to maintain that relationship of trust and it will really support them. Rather than nitpick about the inevitable mess/smell/gaming/dubious music choices.

Thinking about what my DH does for my son, I think the most important thing he brings is a positivity about being male. Not in a stereotypical way but just being a boy is something you can be happy and positive about, there can be a lot of negativity around young men these days. DH is also big on protecting those who are more vulnerable - not to be confused with being patronising, but looking out for other people. I remember a male uni friend who had been brought up similarly and would always make sure no one was left walking home alone after a night out, for example. Allow your son to find his own way of 'being a boy' which it sounds like you are already doing.

On the subject of football, great if he enjoys it but I would just be slightly mindful of the team/group/coaches in terms of role models. DS played for a short time when very young and a lot of the behaviour from boys (and some parents) included diving, shouting for penalties (outside the box when there was no foul), talking back to refs/coaches, being horrible to team mates who missed a ball etc etc. I actually played football and love the game but I was pleased when he quit and chose a sport with a much more positive culture and ethos.

I did read something, maybe on here the other day, that boys get dopamine from rough play with dad's and a different type from cuddles with their mum. I'm not sure how true that all is. I have 2 sons. I never really thought much about how we raise them as such. For example, football. Neither of my sons like it. Ds 1 would have a kick about at break times, ds2 will do anything to avoid it. I think it partly comes down to personality and interest.

You sound really open-minded and balanced OP, much more than I was when mine were small. I’m sure you will do a brilliant job with him :)

The football thing is ridiculous! We are not into football as a family. DS still managed to kick a ball around at break time.

Great! Your ds must have some natural skill then. Or he's shit at it and he and his contemporaries aren't bothered.

That's not the case for everyone. I think it's a good thing to have a skill that gives you a bit of confidence at school. Especially if you are floundering in other areas.

This is a hobby horse of mine! I think that posters who say that boys and girls should just be raised the same must not be aware of the different pressures and expectations that society places on boys and girls. They also must be closing their minds to the issues of adult men,from mental health to violence. And not reading Mumsnet, so missing the very many men who are indifferent fathers and partners. This is an issue which mothers-and more importantly fathers- need to be taking seriously.

And I think the football thing is important. My own arty, musical, bookish son had much easier and happy time at school because he could hold his own in football.

Yes, I agree about the football. It really helps boys socially. It actually seems to help in first year university too!

@CurlewKate yes some things should be the same, some things should be different based on personalities and abilities (some of which will be determined by chromosomes and hormones), some of which should be determined by what the world is likely to throw at them - which will be different for boys and girls. I’d love to raise my daughter as if misogyny didn’t exist, but that would be quite irresponsible no.

It’s a bit similar to how some people misunderstand feminism. Feminism does not mean women should behave like stereotypical men, it means women and men should be free to chose how to be, without being disadvantaged by their sex. It’s not saying let’s be the same, it’s saying let’s allow people to be different, and make sure that’s doesn’t have negative consequences for them.

@LeopardSnow do you know any men who you think have nailed being men? If so, can you involve them in your child's life? As he gets older, think about the men online and in dramas who show the sorts of behaviours you would like your son to emulate. Another hobby horse of mine is consent. Obviously that applies to boys and girls but I think we have a long way to go with boys. Both in terms of their own bodies and beliefs, but in terms of their own behaviour with others. I used to point out things in TV shows, to the point where my children used to say in exasperated tones "Mum-we know!!!!". Once when he was a teenager my DS said "Mum-I hate it when you stealth lecture!"🤣
But I do think being aware and thinking about it is half the battle.

Oh, and about football. My aforementioned arty, bookish DS is now a young adult working in a sensitive bookish sort of job. But he plays 5 a side once a week. He loves it, and it's for him physically and in mixing with other different sorts of men. It's good that he has the skills to take part.

Ok just giving my experience that, contrary to your friend's experience, football wasn't a big thing for my son starting school. As it happens, I do think the culture surrounding football is harmful for various reasons and not something I wanted to push on our son.

You may be surprised to know that most 4-5 year olds do have their own interests and don't want to be pushed into something they're not interested in. It's not to do with being a "free thinking iconoclast", it's about them being an individual. Your son is 3.5 and perhaps is too young for you to see his interests develop yet ☺️

It always interests me that threads about raising boys never seem to attract much traffic. I don't know why. Do people think it's not something we need to/ought to discuss? And if so, why? Are people worried about sounding "anti boy"? Think there's no issue with "toxic masculinity" or the way the patriarchy is damaging to both men and women?

That's an interesting point.
Do raising girls threads get a lot of interest?

I'm here because I only have boys so I was curious what people would say.

Boys are so fundamentally different to girls. If they weren’t we wouldn’t have all that gender aggro at the moment. Not acknowledging this is underestimating the unique specialness of each sex.

I have three sons. 2 daughters.

The boys are of course all different, but what took me by surprise.

• don‘t underestimate the importance of at least understanding the power of teams and sports for boys especially football. Even if it’s not their thing, they need to speak its lingo
• they need to be able to pull their foreskin back later. If they can’t or just don’t, it can lead to problems later- including issues in their sex life, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.
• males by nature are collectors, this urge takes different forms but encouraging this need for „completion“ I think is good.
• make sure he has men in his life, good kind men or at least one. This is his blueprint. A woman can’t do this job in the same way. As we are women.
• There will come a point (around 9/10) when your son starts to look strange. Their jaws grow before the rest of them. They expand in ways you don’t expect and for whatever reason their bodies don’t grow uniformly thus rendering them odd-looking. It’s temporary, but can make them feel ugly and unloveable.Account for this in the same way you would a daughter, but it’s real, not just the internet. Their change is harder and more extreme I think in a strange way.

There’re a few books of raising sons out there. I think some have already been mentioned.
Sons are amazing and surprising and difficult and challenging and funny and loving.
Good luck!

I have two teenage sons and I have found that although I know that I can do just as good a job raising them, and mums can do everything a dad can do, they don’t know that! My second DS in particular seems to crave male attention and approval. He is now bigger and stronger than me and this has been a huge deal for him, I think at times he doesn’t quite know what to do with his new strength and it worries him a bit. He likes to arm wrestle a lot, and finding men that can beat him seems to reassure him. He will also say that I don’t understand him because I’m not a boy, and while I disagree (I think it’s just normal teenage ‘you don’t understand me’ rather than sex specific), it is how he feels.
Thankfully I have a number of good men around who I have discretely asked to support him a bit and they have been fabulous. He is in a youth group and the leader there has been particularly great, they meet up every so often for ‘man chats’, and I know my oldest ds has asked him about shaving.
I am trying to find the balance between challenging any sexism that crops up, but still affirming his identity and needs, and guiding him through what society expects of him as a man, whilst being told that I just don’t get it 😬

I have seen a lot of threads about both.

Obviously I am trying to raise my sons to be kind and respectful of others, and make the point where it comes up about gender equality. But probably more powerful in their lives than anything I can say is living in a family where both parents split the gruntwork evenly, earn roughly the same and don't have traditionally gendered hobbies.

(My husband adores football and played as a kid, neither of my boys are interested. It would make my eldest's life easier in the playground if he liked football but he doesn't, and he's not going to force himself to. )