Raising boys - advice please

[LeopardSnow]

Looking for tips / advice / guidance specifically about parenting / raising boys. I’m a woman married to a woman, and we both grew up with sisters - I have brothers too but they were much older and we weren’t kids at the same time - so basically neither of us have much experience of being / being around / raising boys.

Obviously I know all the basic parenting is the same for boys and girls and you get plenty of boys who don’t conform to stereotypes and vice versa so I don’t really need to be told to just love them and let them be themselves etc. In reality there often are some differences and especially once they get to school boys and girls will face different pressures, peer expectations and environments and I want to make sure I’m equipped to raise a happy, thriving son who feels good about being whatever sort of boy he is.

We’ve got a 3.5 year old boy and a 1.5 year old girl. Looking for any wisdom or advice from parents with boys (dad views particularly welcomed) about what challenges their boys faced, what really helped them or boy specific stuff. Any books you’d recommend found really useful would be good too.

For example a friend with boys told me she wished she’d taught her son at least the basics of football before he started school, as regardless of whether he was super into it or not, being able to play a little functioned as a sort of social currency and way to make friends

Honestly, I think the best thing you could do for him, you’re already doing: raise him to see how strong, independent women go about tackling the world. He has a great start already coming from a family with two women and none of the misogynist stuff that boys can glean from more traditional family set ups with rubbish dads involved.

I’ve not done anything special with ds other than to really emphasise empathy and expressing feelings, which often get mashed down early on in boys. Neither Dh or I know anything about football or rugby or any other team sports. 😂 I hasn’t been an impediment at all.

I think my message quite clearly demonstrates that we’re not teaching him to conform to stereotypes or assuming he wants something specific to boys and giving him only that. Both kids are getting access to rough and tumble play, dancing, dress up, cooking, drawing, cars, gardening, animals, dolls etc etc.

Do you have any evidence that boys’ interest in rough and tumble is entirely created by societal expectation? I think at least some of it is innate.

Well you say that, but you also said:

"Is be interested in whether it’s specifically important that boys get that kind of rough and tumble, resilience building parenting from FATHERS / MEN"

.... so you are contradicting yourself a bit. It's important that both boys and girls get whatever they need - whether that be rough and tumble play, or something else. Some boys and girls want rough and tumble play, some boys and girls dislike it.

You just have to notice what your CHILD needs (whether they are male or female) and respond to that, individually.

If you are saying that every child is individual and you aren't teaching your children to conform to stereotypes, then there's really not a lot you can do at this early stage to prepare for differences between boys and girls.

You just watch your individual child as they grow, and see who they are, and what they need.

Boys need more food and movement than you anticipate. Make sure they're not bored. Definitely make sure they're not hungry and bored. Get them outside.

Find them some decent male role models to have contact with, because they will otherwise find their own.

Well you'd only teach them football if they wanted to play football, surely? My 11 yo DGD plays football but her Dad, my youngest son, hated it!
Seriously don't get hung up. I raised 3 boys and they are all fabulous men. I'd look at health and hygiene basics rather than socialisation, and then just ensure that both the kids get a well rounded opportunity to do whatever they choose. So barbers, understand puberty for a boy etc. Make sure he knows he can talk to you both about 'boy' stuff.
😊

I'm a man who has absolutely zero interest in football but it's true that it's an important bonding point for very many boys and men. When I was younger I tried to force myself to keep track of who was playing just so I could join in the conversation in they office. My DS is a big fan so I kicked a ball around with him when he was little and took him and his friends to practise at the weekend.

I'd echo the recommendation of joining cubs and scouts, and the caution regarding gaming.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Boys-21st-Century-Completely/dp/B07DM83PYD/ref=sr_1_1?crid=30Q06LNAVCAQ0&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.cthmi5AgqKHd-dxaFmjl9-xvJasJjeCZs3PkbnjwpAr6_6hjL75iVXJtZWeZCZxIOilQpA-EJ0wIHVMXIVJOSphVdL9nUVdwHqixuDDkpxxC9Gn2HshMtuRowrD3CgVuHb_nNye5IfpzEvKTFWOb5Xe4oSkap6_Z32g2scIL5NrKb0oOtmBWrF78-gpDJPBCU9LVdVoan446HRIdKR5rF0jKCgh6QU1OO3OcA0LQkgw.BNwP3RNx8EWCqTD5JrAnG1fHtoSuOfAAj74S655gXMk&dib_tag=se&keywords=raising+boys+steve+biddulph+book&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1733826564&sprefix=Raising+boys%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-1

this book might be helpful.

Only difference to date for us between our two kids (one of each), is I have googled forskins far too much. I think being knowledgeable about how to help them keep clean and when it should detach etc is useful to know.

And we aren’t a same sex couple just my DH had his removed at a young age for medical reasons so it’s the blind leading the blind here! Hahah

Sounds like your son has a good relationship with his dad.

Out of curiosity do you think that he’s doing things like log splitting with his dad because his dad is a man, or because log splitting is cool and fun and physically challenging? Would he do it with you if you were the family log splitter?

I was taught how to do a lot of this stuff as a kid (log splitting, diy, using tools, gardening) and it’s given me and my sister a sense of competency and know how that is pretty invaluable and not often given to girls - or not in our generation anyway. We replumbed a bath together in our flat share once and no workmen ever got away with overcharging us for a job.

The football thing is valid, but just to say, it's not just relevant to boys anymore.

I've heard from lots of boy mum's that their child needed football for break time acceptance (sad but true) and in the same way, my 10yr old daughter now wants to be good at football as it's not just boys playing it at break time.

Being confident in different activities is what's important for friendships. The alternative for my daughter if she doesn't play football or want to do gymnastics at lunchtime , or play man hunt (don't get me started on this, she hates it, cannot enjoy it and therefore can't find people to play with) is solo reading at lunchtime. This is something we struggled with.

She's recently expressed interest in football (couldn't get her into a girls team, unsurprisingly at this age) and also netball. Kids just need to feel confident in different things to be able to have social interactions.

My 3.5yr old boy is the next project - he loves football in the garden but stubbornly WILL NOT play any sport at nursery :-)

Also, we are all just finding our way. I have two older girls, and a very loud, boisterous, silly boy. Even with mum and dad here, not sure we have a clue how to raise boys yet!

I’m a single mother of two boys. I didn’t do anything specific. I just raised them with love and attention. They both hated playing football but enjoyed more circuit type sport (but neither were sporty kids). They liked music (both self taught on guitar). I didn’t force any stereo types on them, if they wanted a toy car fine, if they wanted a doll, fine (they never wanted a doll). They tried lots of activities (tennis, street dance, tai kwon do, golf, etc - didn’t want to pursue any of them to any degree, but at least they had a go). They were both reserved at school but had friends (they were not boisterous but neither were they loners).

Basically I just let them be. They’re now young adults. One has a few piercings and a few tattoos, the other doesn’t. Neither has sat and watched a football match in their life.

Yeah, I was responding to someone who said there was increasingly more evidence emerging to show that boys needed that kind of play and that studies were looking into the importance of good fathering that involved that kind of play.

I was questioning whether that kind of play had to come from fathers - aka men, or whether it could come from anyone - aka women.

I was questioning whether that kind of play had to come from fathers - aka men, or whether it could come from anyone - aka women.

In the case of my sons, it came from
their grandmother.

Their father is the least rough and tumble person imaginable. My mum was athletic and playful, did far more outdoor physical play with them. It didn’t seem to disadvantage them in the slightest.

I never did that rough and tumble type stuff (mother). They didn’t see their dad often enough to have that so it wasn’t really part of their upbringing. Did the studies say what the different outcomes are for boys who did and boys who didn’t have that?

Yes absolutely. They both love stereotypically ‘male’ activities, but if I were the one doing them he’d do them with me. I actually used to do all the rough and tumble with him because I enjoyed it and my husband didn’t. I’ve stopped now as it’s too boisterous for me so he wrestles with his cousins instead.

If you and your partner have a good spread of interests between you then you’re already winning.

I’m envious of you and your skills!

Thanks, I appreciate the response. The point about clubs and gaming that you and others have made is a good one. Will look into something like cubs.

I don’t want to force him to do anything he doesn’t want to do, just want to equip him with the tools he will need to decide what he is into and fit in with the herd to some extent, so that he doesn’t feel at a disadvantage from being raised by women. Several male friends have said the same as you, that they aren’t into football but maintain a basic level of football literacy because it helps with smalltalk
and can be a gateway to get to know people and then hopefully discover other shared interests etc.

I’ve a boy and a girl both now grown. With our boy, he was that classic “boys are like dogs” ie needed exercise and outside space to blow off steam. He was a very good footballer for a while and played x 5 times a week aged 8-13 which really helped. DD didn’t need the same sort of exercise-led stimulation.

The other difference I noticed is that whilst my DD was happy to just hang out with friends once they were in teens, DS had to be doing something with them. So no aimless going for a walk, there had to be a planned activity or purpose. (Lol nowadays aged 21 it’s drinking!)

So pre school DS hated the eg music groups where you had to sit still quietly and do as instructed. He’d have been much better running around with maracas in an open space. DD OTOH loved them.

and DS has exceptional emotional intelligence and in many ways is more attuned to social cues etc than many females.

I'm a mum of 2 boys.
I would echo the football thing. I have found it is an important tool to aid friendships in school, plus encourages play with kids he hasn't met before in the park etc...
My boys need lunging 🤣 behaviour is so much better when we've taken them out and they have run off steam.
I do encourage you to think about beavers, which is lovely a non-competitive, high energy activity every week. It's also community focussed which is lovely for boys.
Both my boys are incredibly affectionate, which my husband and I encourage. We have "big emotion" chats when we are doing other things like bath time. We get more about how they're really feeling about things at those points in the day.

I do think it’s important that boys have good male role models in their life though. Although mine only had their dad occasionally they did have uncles.

It was frustrating (but obviously must be something in nature) that meant whatever their dad did or said held more weight than what I did/said even though they only saw him a couple of times a year (he lived abroad). There’s something about masculine energy that they connect with in a way they simply don’t with me.

I agree. Our son is 6 and never showed any interest in football or went to any clubs. He has plenty of friends at school and can kick a ball around if needed, but it's certainly not the only thing they do or talk about in the playground. My husband isn't into sports either and can chat with anyone. It's definitely a certain subset of men that rely on football as a social lubricant.

@LeopardSnow would you push fashion or social media influencers on your daughter just so she had something to talk to with "the other girls"? I understand what your friend is saying and we all want our kids to be socially at ease. On the face of it, football seems like an easy way in. I did have the same thought process regarding football but it turned out to be a non issue and I'm glad we didn't force our son into something he really wasn't interested in (and frankly isn't naturally good at). Just follow your son's interests and he will find his own way. They're hardly playing competitive football in the playground. If you're worried about fitting in, maybe it would be good for him to know about popular kids TV and movies to give him something in common with the other kids, so he could chat about that?

Another vote for pre school football here. We are not a team sport family but DH and I recognised the importance of football as a fitting in thing for early primary. Ds isn't even vaguely interested in football as a teen, but it was an important social thing for those first few years of school.
If you and DW aren't outdoors or sporty people, can you find something you are willing to do outdoors as a family?
And gaming is my other tip. All the boys will be gaming, way earlier than you might like. If it's not your thing get help from someone else quickly at school age. You want to encourage sensible gaming, and be able to head off why he can't have Grand Theft Auto age 6...

What?? OMG what age does it detach.. what is even detaching? I have 3 boys and this has never entered my mind..

.. off to Google foreskin cleaning

My ds is now 6 and he loves some rough and tumble play, far more than dd ever did. Dd was never a girly girl - think tae kwondo and bouldering rather than ballet and Brownies - but ds takes it to another level - he is happiest when he’s being tackled to the ground and wrestled and tickled , then escaping and running away.

Being dangled upside down, spending lots of time outdoors, figuring out how things work and helping to fix things, seem to figure a lot larger in his childhood than my DD’s.

He is just as content for mum or dad to do any of these tasks. For a variety of reasons my dh actually does a lot more of the traditional nurturing (cuddles when he is unwell etc) and we don’t enforce clear gender roles. But ds essentially likes doing what you’d traditionally think of as “boy stuff” more than “girl stuff”. He does enjoy baking, art, piano, but has no interest in dolls any more.

Is this society/ school peer pressure? Hard to say.