Unacceptable behaviour at school

[Jay87]

Advice desperately needed!

This time last year my daughter's behaviour at home started to drastically change to a point where she was unrecognisable. She was so angry all the time and it had a hugely negative affect on our family life. After months of meetings with teachers and trying to get her to communicate what was making her feel so angry it turned out to be the behaviour of two children at school. One child is autistic and the other has extreme behaviours but undiagnosed.

She goes to a small village school where they do not have the staff, budget or resources to fully give these children what they need to stay regulated throughout the day. So pretty much on a daily basis they get angry, throw furniture, hit children, scream, it's very distressing to the other children in the class and the classroom has to be regularly evacuated. My daughter finds this behaviour completely overwhelming and as soon as she steps through the front door after school she lets it all out.

My eldest has similar behaviour in her class but less regularly. Yesterday their class had to be evacuated because a child had become dysregulated. My daughter told me children were crying because they were scared and my younger one has built up so much anxiety about being hurt at school that she refuses to go in in the mornings. As a mother hearing your children are scared at school wanting to come home is heartbreaking.

I've looked in to moving schools but they've made such good friends and it's a big decision to make them start again in a new place. I also have the worry what if another school is exactly the same.

Is this a regular occurrence in schools now? Has anyone got a similar situation?

Thanks!

I should mention this is primary school

That sounds extreme and as you say the issue is the school doesn’t have the budget or resources

given how extreme and the affect it is having I would move schools as that is the only decision you can control

We have nothing like this in our primary school. What are the school doing about it? Id just move schools if it was making my child this unhappy with no resolution from the school. Surely in a village she can keep in touch with local play mates at the local scout hut/park/play dates.

Yes, get your kids out of there. Them not being safe at school is totally unacceptable.

Yes it is because schools, especially small schools, don’t have the funds to pay for staff to support children whose response to not being able to cope is to act out.

Those children however, have as much right to an education as other children so it is a difficult and almost unresolvable situation. Specialist provision is practically non existent.

If you have the option to move your children then you could, but there is of course no guarantee, even if you went to the private sector, that there would not be similar issues of demanding children making life hard for yours.

The school is doing the right thing, and class evacuation is the right procedure although is horrible for all involved.

It can be relatively common at Primary age when the schools are trying to get students into specialist provision it takes time and evidence and sometimes parents aren't on board and want their child to stay in mainstream.

Whether other local schools are similar is pot luck with the students they have in the classroom.

This isn't normal, move schools.

No, it’s not a regular occurrence at my DC’s school, which is large, 3 form entry. I have heard of a much older child who I know has SEN throwing a chair once, but I didn’t get the impression that it was a regular occurrence.

My DC’s classes have more and less challenging children (mine can sometimes be included in the more category some days, both I think are ND, although there has only ever been one incident where my DC hurt another child (and it was response to being hurt himself, although my DC’s response was worse…!). But nothing like what you’re describing. The more challenging children are fidgety, silly, messing around, perhaps needing lots of reassurance from the teacher and needing to be close to them, perhaps not doing what they’re told first time or sulking if they have to do something they don’t want to. But nothing like you’re describing.

My DC’s school does have a separate nurture classroom where I know some children with behaviours that can be more challenging are able to go, however there are definitely some children needing extra support in the mainstream classes. But as I stress, nothing on the scale of what you describe, which from my experience of friends’ kids in different schools too, is very unusual.

No, this is not normal. I think verty small schools with limited resources are mor elikely to experience this. I would move her. You can maintain friendships with those chidren that she is close to.

What do you want us to suggest OP? That all children with SN should be taken out of MS schools so that children like yours don’t have to see that type of behaviour neurological difference? It won’t be that the parents of the children even have a choice. If the school is run by a the LA, then the school have the responsibility to apply for appropriate funding based on the needs of the children. Move your child if you’re unhappy.

Yes, I do actually believe that children with this level of SN should be taking out of MS school.

Their needs do not trump the safety of other children.

Realistically, children like this are unlikely to be successful in MS and in fact the work place in the future.

I don't know why children have to put up with this level of abuse when adults would not have too.

Ah, okay, just another SEN witchhunt thread. Good, great.

Where are these poor SEN children supposed to go if they are taken out of mainstream?

Realistically, children like this are unlikely to be successful in MS and in fact the work place in the future.

This comment is absolutely disgusting. Should we just round them all up and throw them in asylums, you know, like in the olden days?

No, but we need to open up a lot more SN schools. Children who are a danger to themselves and to other children need to be in SN schools. They should not be in situations in which they can hurt other children.

Integration has not worked, and has negatively affected both NT and ND children.

There should be an awful lot more support for mainstream and more bespoke specialist school equipped to deal with the needs of the child.

the school at the moment is failing both the SEN child and the others in the class - and the system is at fault

Or mainstream education should just be reformed to meet the needs of everyone, not just typically developing children…

It’s not just about ND versus NT, sorry to break it to you but there are plenty of badly behaved NT children too.

I'm not saying take SEN children out of mainstream, please do not rewrite my words. I said it's a small village school with limited resources, there are plenty of larger schools with plenty of provisions for SEN children where they can thrive and I know that from experience. SEN children have every right to be in mainstream schools if that school can provide for them and that's where the educational system is letting them down unfortunately. I'm simply trying to put my child in the school best suited to her, as should everyone.

Its really difficult for schools to balance the needs of ALL pupils. I sit on an exclusion panel for a Primary school and almost all of the DC we see can't rather than won't behave. If we chuck them out then where do they go? Written off before the age of 10, its heartbreaking.
Huge amounts of resources are diverted to these children and often school is a safe place for them but schools just cannot meet their needs sometimes and it can be disruptive and often scary for other DC in the class.
I don't have an answer I'm afraid.

One day in my son's class some kids suddenly stood up and started choking other children - something they had seen in a Tik-Tok challenge. They are 9 years old. All the kids got scared and ran out of the classroom. It's crazy and I couldn't believe it when my son told me. Even more crazy that kids that age are allowed to watch dangerous nonsense.

Funding comes from local government, and it's been drastically cut back. If a child has a non-diagnosis then the school can't request extra funding to pay for 1:1 help. Also parents have to be on board, you do get situations (we currently have in the school where I work), where the parents won't accept their child is ND. If parents don't seek help, the school can't do this solely by themselves, as it would be without consent. Usually outside agencies become involved, eg child psychologist etc, to try and help but again parental support and consent is required. We are in a situation where there are long waiting lists on the NHS for an ND diagnosis (around 2-3 years, depending on the area) and this has a knock-on issue, as schools have to try and manage a child. You need to ask what is being done to manage these children? What strategies are in place? Children should feel safe in school, that's a fundamental of safeguarding, and your children clearly don't feel this way. I would look to move schools, if the school can't give you answers.

It’s not unusual unfortunately

yesterday a boy in my daughters school tried to run after her and punch her. She was terrified. The school have dealt with it well and been very good with her but it’s been worrying sending her back in. They’ve had to put new fencing in because another child kept trying to escape over it to run home- he’s 6. He would regularly trash the classroom. Another one just randomly screams in the middle of the class

i used to teach in mainstream. I had a class with 3 boys once who would regularly lash out, throw chairs, kick me etc. we had restraint training but it wasn’t enough. One tried to run to the kitchen to get a knife. Eventually, one was diagnosed with adhd and medication helped and another went to the PRU. Not sure on the third- I left after the hellish year with this class. It was awful for the other kids in the class.

there is no money. No funding for the right support for these kids. The whole situation is a shit show for the kids in school who do behave and are frightened and the kids who have SEN and need support that they aren’t getting

I do believe that children who struggle with mainstream should be moved, but for their benefit - not because NT children shouldn’t have to be around them.

My stepson spent his first year of schooling hiding in the cloakroom of his EYFS setting because the environment was too much for him, and on occasion did lash out, bite etc. He was overwhelmed, and I give absolutely no mind to how inconvenient that is for others. He’s not suitable for mainstream, not equipped for it, and needed an alternative so that he could be better regulated, and better educated. That process takes time.

I’m heavily biased, but it’s not about whether your kids should have to witness someone else’s meltdown, it’s about the kids who need a more suitable provision for their needs.

Calling it abuse is vile. They are struggling children, have a word with yourself.

If a child has a non-diagnosis then the school can't request extra funding to pay for 1:1 help

They can. It’s based on need nowadays. Especially since some of the waiting lists for assessment are years long.

This is exactly what it's like in my dcs' primary school, however their previous school was nothing like that, so I think you either move schools or keep complaining in the hope that something will be done about it.

One of my son's schoolfriends is autistic and would go on regular violent rampages when dysregulated, even when he had a 1:1. It took ages for the local authority to finally agree that mainstream couldn't meet his needs and a lot of kids got hurt in the meantime.