Unacceptable behaviour at school

[Jay87]

Advice desperately needed!

This time last year my daughter's behaviour at home started to drastically change to a point where she was unrecognisable. She was so angry all the time and it had a hugely negative affect on our family life. After months of meetings with teachers and trying to get her to communicate what was making her feel so angry it turned out to be the behaviour of two children at school. One child is autistic and the other has extreme behaviours but undiagnosed.

She goes to a small village school where they do not have the staff, budget or resources to fully give these children what they need to stay regulated throughout the day. So pretty much on a daily basis they get angry, throw furniture, hit children, scream, it's very distressing to the other children in the class and the classroom has to be regularly evacuated. My daughter finds this behaviour completely overwhelming and as soon as she steps through the front door after school she lets it all out.

My eldest has similar behaviour in her class but less regularly. Yesterday their class had to be evacuated because a child had become dysregulated. My daughter told me children were crying because they were scared and my younger one has built up so much anxiety about being hurt at school that she refuses to go in in the mornings. As a mother hearing your children are scared at school wanting to come home is heartbreaking.

I've looked in to moving schools but they've made such good friends and it's a big decision to make them start again in a new place. I also have the worry what if another school is exactly the same.

Is this a regular occurrence in schools now? Has anyone got a similar situation?

Thanks!

What would you call being hit, bitten and hurt? Or being too frightened to go to school? I would call it abuse.

If you felt like that in the workplace, it would be illegal.

If you felt like that at home, it would be DV.

When SEN children beat their parents, it is also called abuse.

More needs to be done to support these children in to SN schools. Children who are consistently hurting other children have no place in MS school, NT or ND.

I think it's a cop-out to say the school doesn't have the staff, budget or resources to manage issues like these. Some of these children clearly have additional needs, so the school should be applying for an EHCP on behalf of the child so that they get the funding they need. (Yes, occasionaly there may be parents that don't want to pursue this for their child, but this shouldn't stop the school putting some strategies in place to help.)

But if I were in your place, I would be visiting other schools ASAP, with a view to moving your children at the start of next year. If the existing school actually had adequate strategies in place, this issue wouldn't have gone on so long. It sounds like none of the children in this school are receiving the education they deserve in the environment they deserve - it's outrageous for an entire class to be evacuated on a regular basis because of the behaviour of another child. What on earth is happening for that child to get to such a point on a regular basis? Are there no signs beforehand, no obvious flashpoints, no opportunities for intervention (such as taking them to a quiet space if they start becoming overwhelmed) or de-escalation?

I have never, and would never, refer to being bitten by a SEN child “abuse.” For context, the last time that happened was on Sunday. My partner also currently has arms covered in bruises.

We are not being abused, we’re supporting a very vulnerable, struggling child to regulate his huge emotions, and to learn how to do that better. Please don’t accept my apologies that that isn’t an overnight fix.

You’re right, they need an alternative provision and option. But where that isn’t available right this second, perhaps we could try educating people that some children struggle to manage their behaviours in the same way as others, and that they also deserve help without being vilified.

Your point, about those children needing something different, is bang on - your attitude around it stinks.

She goes to a small village school where they do not have the staff, budget or resources to fully give these children what they need to stay regulated throughout the day.

I agree with @C152 and would make serious plans to move your DDs next year. Individual schools do vary and your DD's school clearly isn't coping well. Larger schools usually have more flexibility and more resources to deal with disruptive children. They also have more experience of managing children with these kinds of needs just because they are larger.

Parents sometimes have a romantic view of very small local schools, that they will be able to support children with additional needs better because they are small and less busy and everyone knows everyone. And for some children that can work but the lack of resources and experience mean that when it doesn't work it really doesn't work!

It is possible that both children will be moved to other provision but there are no guarantees and the school wont be able to tell you.

When SEN children beat their parents, it is also called abuse.

When any child, whether they are considered SN or not, especially a young children, when they hit, I would not call this abuse. It’s something they might be able to learn not to do and why, but it highly depends on the child’s level of understanding, and of course, SEN children often have lower levels of understanding for their age and less ability to self regulate.

Stop bashing children with special or additional needs. It’s not only them who have the capacity to lash out. I’ve seen so many threads on here where a typically developing child is hitting and the parents want to know how to curb that behaviour. You’re just being discriminatory at this point.

I absolutely agree that it's about whether the children can have the provisions they need which is why I asked if this is something that lots of schools are experiencing, big and small. The school does everything they can to provide but it's not enough and the effect it has on the class as a whole is often overlooked. As a few people have said the system is failing everyone which is why I wanted to ask to see if others have had similar experiences. I would never put blame on to a SEN child , it's not the child's fault in any way, it upsets them as much as the rest of the class so it's down to the school and the parents to work out if they are in the right setting or if another school or setting could provide for them better. All I can do is work with the school to see if it's the right setting for my child.

I really appreciate everyone's posts and sharing your knowledge and experiences.

Unfortunately, yes. It’s probably quite widespread.

I know in our situation he was in mainstream for a year, which wasn’t ideal for anyone - during that year his plan was being finalised and a more suitable placement was being found. But it did all take a while. His school did have an additional resource, but it wasn’t enough.

It’s not you being discriminatory or rude, so please don’t think that these comments are targeted at you and your concerns for your child.

As the parent of a special needs child , I'd take him out myself if he was struggling to cope that badly in school that he was becoming violent. Its not fair on any of the children.

If there isn’t a second adult in the classroom to watch out for triggers and then remove a distressed child to quiet space then how do you propose a teacher with 29 other children deals with the situation?

Its hard to know what children will be in any class these days as there just isnt the funding or provision for children with SENs. From what you have said though I would 100% move her, nothing is going to change and this is having an extreme impact on your own child. Those children should have an education plan and funding for their own classroom assistant? If she moves to a bigger school there would be more options to change classes and stream etc, good luck its a big decision but it sounds like it would be best

The school should be receiving additional funds to support those children. This can be £1000's. If the children have EHCPs (a process the school can support with) there will be further funding. I would bet though, the additional funding goes into the big pot and is actually spent on all children/school needs, which your child will be if it from.

The funding that comes from the council is no where near enough for 1-1 TAs as well as all of the other provisions to support SN children.

It is way more likely that children with SN will be using way more money that is allocated to them even when you factor in the additional funding they may have (many children do not have additional funding).

Great! So generous and gracious of you to accept such a whopping great increase in your council tax, so we can fund specialist schools properly. I'd call that selfless. It will be quite a chunky increase, mind. My autistic DS' specialist school costs the LA about £90k per academic year, and in these straitened times, the LA only agreed funding after he'd been dysregulated in MS (alongside other, more deserving children without disabilities) for 3 years. Oh, and I spent £20k of my own money on accessing support and diagnostics, because the NHS is dogshit when it comes to autism as well.

If only I'd consulted you in advance, I'd have known that DS was only for the scrap heap (despite his IQ of >150...ahem) and I could have saved the LA all that lovely cash. Or I might even have sent him up a chimney myself!

These threads are really distasteful reading.

Yes of course children who throw furniture, shout and scream at others and hurt other children should not be in a classroom with other children, no matter what the reason. All children have the right to be safe and not abused in school, I would absolutely be kicking up a fuss if it were my child being subjected to it. I send my child to school to learn and out my trust in the school that they will keep her safe, I do not expect her to be unsafe and subjected to abuse.

That’s on the school, and the education system, not the children doing the hitting etc. I’ve already gone over this, it’s also not abusive behaviour. It’s an unmet need or range of complex needs. Stop villainising young children who have additional needs or unmet needs.

You think a primary school age child being hit is acceptable and isn’t abuse? Not saying it’s the child’s fault but it doesn’t make it ok and acceptable.

@Overthebow this may just blow your mind, but disruptive children (like my DS) and their parents don't get a free pass from the law compelling them to attend school, no matter how unsuitable the environment.

These issues are not the result of bad parenting: seriously disruptive behaviour is typically the sign of a disability. Having autism, ADHD, sensory processing problems and social and communication disorders is no picnic for the actual disabled child, or the other children in their class. All of the children in these scenarios deserve better.

Please direct your rage at the LA's (with the wholehearted support of every SEN parent I've ever met) who happily allow ND children to languish in MS without appropriate provision in place, despite knowing the potential for harm to occur.

I'd have known that DS was only for the scrap heap

I would hardly call SN provisions "the scrap heap".

We desperately need more spaces in SNS so that the children who are struggling in MS and are exhibiting aggressive and difficult behaviours, can be moved and supported for their wellbeing and the wellbeing of every other child and teacher who are being hurt.

The same way teachers managed it when I was at school, when there was no such thing as teaching assistants and every class had between 30-35 pupils in it? Why is it that a teacher that has had a diagnosed autistic child in their class for nearly a whole school year (assuming it is the same teacher and not a series of temps) doesn't yet know what their triggers are?

Have you gone down the route of complaining to governors? If it’s reached the point where your dd is refusing school they should take it extremely seriously.

I am governor of a small village school and we have a lot of children with SN. We have a lot of TAs and several kids have a 1:1 so classroom evacuations never happen.

I completely agree.

I previously dated a teacher working in Hackney. Her class was full of children with horrific home-lives. School was a safe place that they went to for a few hours each day. If their classroom had been full of violence and fear, what then?

If some children pose a risk to other children, the class shouldn't be evacuated. The problem children should be excluded.

The right to an education shouldn't trump the right to exist in safety.

My son's class has a kid that acts out all the time like this. He moved from another school. I think it's pot luck, my oldest went right through primary with no disruptive children.

Wouldn't you? You wrote Realistically, children like this are unlikely to be successful in MS and in fact the work place in the future which, in addition to being the kind of discriminatory statement that would have you banned from MN in any other context, sounds rather like the scrap heap to me.

I agree with you about specialist school places fwiw. I have no skin at the game now, because DS' education in an independent specialist school is being funded (by the generosity of taxpayers like you) until he's 18. However, if you look at the rate at which autism and other types of neurodivergence are now being diagnosed, and the number of schools struggling to support SEN kids, as a society, we're either going to have to find a way to accommodate more "children like this" in MS, or a lot of people are going to have to get very cool about paying a fucktonne more tax very quickly.

Firstly, not all children can communicate or understand their own triggers. Secondly, sometimes you can’t help.

Our recent triggers have included:

• I want to turn the sun off
• This water is too cold
• I don’t like that woman’s jumper
• The colour red is pissing me off
• I’m hungry, but absolutely will not eat
• That child looked at a thing I’ve never even touched

And they’re just the ones we’ve recognised.

That child, with those triggers, was in a mainstream school at one stage. What exactly do you propose anyone, let alone a teacher with other kids to look after, does to turn the actual sun off.