4 year old's bad behaviour at school

[mumTTCno2]

Struggling so much with my 4 year old son's behaviour

He started reception in September, youngest in the year (but these behaviours have been a common occurrence all through preschool too)

Just sat here having a little cry at yet again another bad report back from the teacher

He won't sit down on the carpet to do any learning, refuses to tidy up, just general not listening at all to teachers and today he pushed a boy very hard into the pegs (it's not uncommon for him to lash out without thinking)

He is very tall for his age (113cm) and is a very rough, and hyperactive boisterous boy

He has now been put on a behaviour plan

Just seems as though all of my friends kids are doing so well, enjoying school etc but so difficult for us 😔

His behaviour is much better at home (used to be awful!) but no matter what consequences and boundaries I apply for his actions at school, he seems to forget all about it once he gets past those school gates

Any advice or words of wisdom? Finding it hard to constantly be the parent of the "naughty disruptive" type of child and worried he'll struggle to make/maintain friendships if this carries on

Did he go to nursery or any other childcare before school? I’m just wondering if he did how was his behaviour then?

After today's behaviour and hurting that little boy I've told him we can no longer go to inflatanation as planned tomorrow and he's very upset now. Do you think this is fair? Although I've done consequences like this before and it just doesn't seem to register and the poor behaviour at school continues regardless 😔

He's been going to nursery/preschool 3 days a week since 2 years old and his behaviour was probably even worse then in ways but I guess it was more put down to his age at that point .. whereas in school they're a lot more strict and have told me it's unacceptable etc

We've always implemented boundaries, consequences etc and it's worked amazingly at home and now he's so well behaved majority of the time at home but just can't seem to get him to behave in school settings 😩

What did the nursery say about his behaviour, and did they pass their concerns on to his school?

He be been assessed for SEN?

I was just about to ask this too.

Just that he's extremely hyperactive and can't focus on toys for longer than a couple of minutes, often gets bored which then leads to him doing silly things like throwing toys over the fence etc.

He is a lovely, lovely child. Will often tell people they look beautiful today, will always want to cheer his friends up if they're sad etc .. just can't seem to follow instructions and has a short fuse

They didn't pass anything onto the school. It was a private nursery and very much "bye cya later" then nothing after the graduation. No documents or communication with school.

No but I strongly suspect he has ADHD. The school need two terms of evidence or something? to support a referral. But either way I don't want to just stick a label on him then excuse poor behaviour, I want to try and guide him to be better behaved but I honestly feel clueless

@mumTTCno2 did the nursery ever suggest to you that they had concerns that his behaviour was outside neurotypical/developmental expectations?

Did they share their concerns with the new school either verbally or via an end of year transition report?

Sorry, just seen that you’ve addressed my second question.

Hi, they mentioned a couple of times that he's very hyperactive and has poor concentration but often followed by saying he'll 'grow out it' but I've had my suspicions for a while that he has ADHD however everyone around me thinks I'm being silly because he's only just turned 4.

There was no report or anything no, his nursery haven't had any communication with the school

At that age consequences need to be immediate.
I (luckily) have a very well behaved child, but I still reward for good behaviour, eg when had a green card all week got a treat on a Friday (stickers/cake/small toy/ choice of movie etc). Could you try that way?

If he’s got better at awareness and behaviour at home then you’ve clearly got some tactics and good foundations to work on with school.

It might be worth asking for a meeting with school for a reasonable chunk of time (not just a quick phone call) to talk about tactics. At his age consequences will need to be pretty close to the action to have any meaning to him. Even by hometime is probably too removed from the event to be effective.

Another one to consider is is he getting over tired by school? If that’s potentially a factor and you’ve got the option it may be worth discussing reducing his hours for a bit while gets familiar and builds up the idea of appropriate behaviour and managing frustrations at school.

I've told him we can no longer go to inflatanation as planned tomorrow and he's very upset now. Do you think this is fair?

I know it's hard and you're doing your best, OP, but he's only four. A consequence or withdrawal of a treat has to be immediate, not something significant that happens the next day. It just won't help.

His concept of time, his attention span, his ability to reason needs something that happens there and then, not something deferred. It's just as nonsensical to him as withholding pudding today for not washing his hands on Monday.

I know you want to support good behaviour and not reward poor behaviour, but the outcomes have to fit the developmental stage of the child. You can do that to a 10 year old, but to a 4 year old it will feel pretty arbitrary.

Well this is the issue haha it needs to be immediate but I'm not physically there enforce it 🙈

I think that's why his behaviour is so good at home now because I have worked SO hard on consequences for bad behaviour, praise for good behaviour etc and it's finally paid off

They're starting a behaviour plan on Monday where he'll have targets to meet with smiley face stickers so I'm really hoping this plan will help

It’s good that you’re having a good dialogue with school about their and your concerns.

You’ve probably just worded it poorly but having a child assessed and getting a diagnosis is never ‘sticking a label’ on them.

Yes, he could have ADHD, but equally, he could be a 4 year old who is struggling to make the transition to a more structured setting.

If it is ADHD, it is extremely rare to find a paediatrician or psychiatrist who will diagnose before 6 years old, unless they are already involved with the child due to other neurodevelopmental or developmental concerns.

As you suspect ADHD may be present, I suggest looking on YouTube for footage by Dr Russell Barkley, called something like 30 essentials for parents. It’s an incredibly informative presentation - probably the most helpful thing I read/watched when I was researching my dd’s ADHD. I have 22 years experience in Early Years education as well.

@AmeliaEarache

Thank you that's really helpful. I was very conflicted about it as I do think he's so young, it's hard to know just how much he understands. I feel sorry for him in a way because it's so hard for him to conform to all these new rules but then comparison is the thief of joy really because I'm just upset seeing everyone else have it so easy! 😫

Ps reward charts etc may work short term, but they are very unlikely to support any lasting changes in children with ADHD as the rewards are not immediate enough. The novelty of stickers very quickly wears off!

@ScaryM0nster I do agree he's getting overtired and I genuinely think 5 days a week full time is just too much for him to handle, but I was inclined to see if he'd adjust as the weeks go on

@Littlefish sorry yes it was worded badly I didn't mean it as I see it as just a label and that's that, of course it's incredibly important to diagnose so they can get the help they need for sure. I will definitely check out what you've said. I guess if he does have ADHD then it will be something we'll find out within a couple of years but hopefully we can find something that supports him in the meantime

I wouldn't punish him again at home for bad behaviour at school - as you say yourself it won't help. there will be consequences at school so leave them to deal with behaviour at school.

What you need to be doing is what you're already doing and really working on his behaviour at home, I'd try to avoid all screens or limit strictly and get him out in the fresh air as much as possible, somewhere he can burn off some energy and you can have a really positive time. You want him to want to behave and so the more positive and encouraging you can be the better. Games where he has to concentrate for a short time and reading to him at bedtime can help with concentration. Start getting him to tidy up at home - do it with him and lots of praise to start with.

Instead of punishing him for things that happen at school, encourage him to practise at home the things he's struggling with at school.

Are you sure? They usually always pass stuff on. Teachers usually visit them too.

Just my thoughts... please don't pathologise too early. He is a very young child indeed. Very.
School is arduous and days are long. Perhaps the initial novelty has worn off.
The fact that he is tall can make life tricky.
School should be supporting.

He's very young, it's very early days in reception and the school sounds a bit OTT. Behaviour plans? I was under the impression that in reception there is very little formal learning..it's mostly free play. Do they mean he can't sit on the carpet for things like a story ?