Unconditional parenting fans - I NEED your help re: DD (3) and bedtime...pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

[WankmasterBastardDeLaShithead]

DD has been getting worse and worse at going to bed. We've always had a great routine, and she's pretty much always been a decent sleeper (bar the odd blip).

She had a stairgate on her bedroom door until a couple of months ago. We took it off because she can climb over it. Since then she's gradually been getting more and more difficult at bed time. We've tried 'cracking down' on it over the past few weeks, but to NO avail. We've mainly tried rapid return and it DOES NOT WORK. We've also tried rewards and punishments (e.g. taking one of her many cuddly toys, shutting the door etc....shit ideas, I know - entirely DH's plan).

Can anyone give me some 'Unconditional Parenting' or 'How to Talk' stylee suggestions?

I'm despairing , and we're both feeling like utterly shit parents.

I have bought How to Talk So Kids will listen, and will start reading tonight, but if anyone could give us a headstart with some quick pointers we'll try them tomorrow night.

I'm sorry, I have absolutely no advice, I just wanted to congratulate you on the best MN name EVER

yep, I'm going to have to give you bouquets for the name as well.

and no ideas to help, sorry, as ds is still cot-able

Does she go to bed alright and then plays up or is it a nightmare from when it is suggested?

Ds (3.6) has been playing up enormously for bed time recently (especially when his dad is out). Both refusing to go and getting up 1800 times for the next few hours.

What I do is when he refuses to go to bed (bearing in mind we are the only ones in the house) I take his drink, comfort blanket and today's favourite toy and say 'well one of us has got to so I guess it is going to be me, night night'. As he hates the idea of being alone and not getting any attention it doesn't tak ehim more than 5 mins to get up the stairs and then get into bed. The first few nights I was sat on the floor of his room waiting for a bit, but he did come up and climb into bed.

Then when he gets up (usually with a crappy excuse) he calls down the stiars. First time I go up to him, talk about what is wrong adn put him back in bed/tuck him in.

Second time he gets put back in bed, tucked in and told to go to sleep.

Third time I put him in, and go down silently.

After that I tend to just shout up the stairs nad eventually ignore him (even if he is wandering about etc).

Also if he doesn't lie down in bed for me to tuck him in then I tell him he can do it himself and go back downstairs.

We have talks before bed about how he needs to sleep and what we are doing hte next day. Also that the cats/lodger etc are all going to bed, how his toys are tired and are going to sleep, so he doesn't feel it's just him going and everyone else is having fun. Lodger plays along as goes up to his room anyway.

Tis exhausting though.

scellotape?

Is that your BabyWorld name?

So what does she actually do/want?

I would probably advise to go soft on her for a while and see if she gets over it herself.

She's totally fine about going to bed. In fact she's usually quite eager for it (because she knows it's time to torment her parents ).

I think the ignoring strategy would work best, BUT whenever we've tried it she sneaks around wakes up DS Then we have two wailing toddlers and even less chance of getting her to sleep.

Have you tried putting a story CD on so she stays in bed?

emkana - as far as I can see she mainly wants to get into DS's cot. Her plan B would probably be to come and sit with us and watch telly. Shall we let her do that. I'm scared of making it worse. [haunted eyes]

lol MP and NN.

maidamess - no...that's quite a good idea, although she will take the CD player apart.

I would let her do that, yes. I believe children at certain points in their development just need a bit of extra reassurance, and if you give it they will get over that particular phase and move on.

Or as a compromise, how about staying with her in her room?

I used to sit in ds doorway and read a book. Stopped him getting out (this was previous bad sleeping phase). Totally ignoring him and his attempts to chat/jump on me etc.

Is she going through a period of bad nightmares? This is what has kicked off ds latest phase. We've done several things to make him more comfortable about that if you want details.

If it's bedtime and she's been put to bed you're REALLY sending out the message that you're a BIG SOFT QUITTER if you let her sit up watching TV with you.

How about: 'if you stay in your bed with your eyes closed I'll sit in the doorway and read my book till you go to sleep'

You can make bedtime later and make sure she's really physically tired.

X-posts with Armadillo there.

No nightmares, and she is definitely tired. Bedtime is 7.30. Is that about right/normal?

Why don't you stay in there until she sleeps, give her lots of hugs and reassurance until she is ready to go it alone.
I think at certain stages they get scared of the dark or want to make sure you are still there

My ds goes up at about 6-6.30 but has to get up around 6.30-7am.

I find he gets worse when he is tired though.

What time is she getting up? naturally without being woken?

7.30 sounds normal, but I think these things depend heavily on the child.

7.30 sounds fine. Will she stay in bed if you do a sticker chart? On awkward nights I say to ds (just turned 4) "if you lie down with your eyes shut, then I will ask if you are awake in 10 minutes, if you are you can come down stairs and watch tv". He asks a couple of times, but hasn't a clue how long 10 mins is, he's always asleep really quickly. The rules are he has to lie quietly though, never has he made it to '10 minutes'

I don't understadn why we always have to appear hard when it comes to bedtime.

I've "given in " at various times and in various ways with all my children, and it always has sorted itself out.

The sticker chart also wroked REALLY well, as he choose a toy he wanted and was told if he went to bed really well he got a sticker, after 5, he could go to the shop and buy the car. It worked....honest!

I agree Emkana, if you are getting stressed then she knows she gets loads of attention, don't make a big meal of it, it becomes like a game to her.

I think it is one of those things that depend on the child involved.

Ds needs his sleep and he will stay up all night and the prob gets worse and worse if we don't find a way of dealing with it. He won't sleep later in morning so needs to get his sleep in an evening.

On a weekend he is allowed up later, but tends to choose to go to bed at a similar time. Until recently he took himself to bed around the same time every night.

he is a happier child when he has a set routine and plenty of sleep.

He isn't usually that much of a problem when sleeping. He'll sleep anywhere (no probs when we go on holiday etc).

My friend's dd isn't so particular about when she goes to sleep - if she goes to bed later, then she sleeps later, so there is more choice for her about when she goes to bed.

DD gets up at about 7.30-8am (although later recently as she's been catching up on her late nights ).

I will try sitting in her doorway tomorrow night, but I'm concerned it will be difficult to stop doing it. I suppose I'll cross that bridge when it comes to it.

I should imagine that her reaction will be to get out of bed and play with her toys while I sit there. Do I try to get her back into her bed? (She thinks it's hilarious when we do the rapid return thing, and she's got awesome stamina). Or shall I just ignore her while she footles around in her room?

Sounds like she is getting loads of attention from this .

How about parking yourself with book/laptop at her door and just sit there.

Be nice about it though she might have something she wants to talk to you about.

Oh and I agree with Emkana. I have "given in" at various points and it is not a forever situation.