So Mumsnet jury, would you allow your six year old DD to feel the consequences of her behaviour by not allowing her to go to a birthday party on Saturday?

[LittleBella]

I bought a fabulous book for the boy whose party it is, which I told her she was not allowed to touch as it could get dirty or damaged. Now I know I should have hidden it from her, wrapped it up, kept it out of her reach, etc., but I didn't because I'm not effing Supermum and I can't remember to be permanently competent. Actually that's not strictly true, I did put it up high and she would have had to get a chair to get it down. I also want my DD not to touch things which she has been told not to touch and at 6 years old I am wondering whether it is unreasonable to expect her to leave stuff alone when she has been explicitly told that that item is out of bounds.

Anyway the inevitable happened and she has broken the book. Not only is it broken, a couple of the bits are missing so it can't be fixed. (It's one of those books that you then use to build a castle.) I don't want to buy the child another present, so my inclination is to say to DD that as she no longer has a present to take to the party, she can't go.

Would this be utterly draconian? I have a feeling it would be, but otoh what consequence should she experience for this unfortunate event?

[Crunchie]

just checked with my kids and they jknow the ONLY things they csnnot get away with are Lying and disobeidence (bear in mind this is not naughtyness, this going going against expicit instructions IYKWIM)

Thinko=ing overnight on this one I will temper things, dependant on the size of party. If it is a large party, defineately don't go, small party (5 or 6 or so) then perhaps something else.

BTW my DD's BF was not allowed to a party for being really badly behaved (she was 5 IIRC) she and my kids still remember this!!

[tigermoth]

Really, what you want to do is teach your dd to value other people's possessions a bit more. So, the more I think about this, the more I feel the 'not going to the party n 3 days time' is a red herring. I think you need to do something centred around your dd's possessions and the replacement gift - taking one of her toys away temporarily, making her 'earn' enough to buy another gift, selling one of her toys etc etc.

Is she inquisitive/destructive with her own possessions? I went through a phase of this when I was a child.

[bozza]

TBH if someone had replied to say they were coming to my child's party and I had booked them a place/bought them a party bag etc I would be pissed off if they decided the child wasn't coming as a punishment.

However I do agree that your DD's behaviour is not acceptable. I would be very cross with my 3yo for doing that, never mind my 7yo. I think I would confiscate her favourite toy/set of toys. So for DS this would be his Nintendo (plus ban on PS2) and for DD it would be her dolls.

[cosima]

I am way too soft, but presumambly you looked at the book together commenting on how fab it was, then she wants to look at . Children, aswell as learning not to touch things they are told off for, Also have to learn that they can be forgiven, and that getting excited and enthusiastic about something is ok, and that also the world is a good place and people are generous. But I am way too soft

[Nighbynight]

daisy - she has clearly not read teh Saki short story "The Gooseberry Garden" about a boy whose aunt does the same sort of thing!

[LittleBella]

Seeker and Tigermoth, you?re right, it is part of a bigger pattern of her continually taking things, looking at things etc., which she knows she?s not allowed to and then they end up broken. She doesn?t do it deliberately, she?s just curious. I haven?t told her the consequence is missing the party, I?ve told her it might be, seeing as how we now have the problem that there?s no present. I?ve presented it to her that now there is a problem that has to be solved, so how how do we solve it and one of the possible solutions is for her not to go to the party. But she knows there are other possible solutions. So I?m not worried about going back on my word. Also I don?t think that?s always a bad thing ? kids need to learn that you can be flexible as well, I think.

Ahundredtimes, I did show her the book, we did look at it and marvel at it and she could see how it would be built into a castle after reading the story, before putting it away until I had time to wrap it up. What she couldn?t accept, is that she had to leave it alone. And tbh I really don?t think I should have to wrap it up there and then while I?m in the process of cooking dinner/ putting away the shopping, I should be able to leave something until later when I have time.

I really don?t like the idea of buying a copy of my children?s toys for other kids, I think they should be able to accept that some children have things they don?t have, just as I accept that some people have Ferraris and penthouse flats and husbands like Johnny Depp, that I don?t have.

As for the blind obedience thing, LOL. I?m not asking for blind obedience I am asking for my child to respect explicit requests. She understands why she can?t play with a toy that is a present for someone else, we?ve been through the explanations several times and she understands them. This was not a random barked order accompanied by a Christopher-Plummer-in-The-Sound-of-Music-Whistle . This was something we have reasonably discussed. I guess I could have said ?if you don?t leave it alone the consequence will be?? but I don?t think you should anticipate children deliberately doing something they have been told not to, I think you ought to have higher expectations of them so that they have higher expectations of themselves.

Anyway thank you for all your opinions, this has turned into a really interesting discussion!

[scaryteacher]

I have refused to take ds to a party because he was being so damned unpleasant, but I did ensure that the child got their birthday present. I also offered to pay the parent for his place at the party so they wouldn't end up out of pocket.

He learned that I follow through when I threaten something, and whilst he now pushes it to the limit at times, he knows not to push all the way as he is aware of the consequences.

I would keep the little girl away from the party, but buy another present. I'd ring the parent and explain and offer to pay the cost for her dd. I don't see that the punishment is draconian...sometimes you have to do this.

My favourite lines are 'what part of no don't you understand?', and 'because I'm your mother, that's why!'. These are on fridge magnets and ds has to read them every day when he's being revolting.

[ALMummy]

You should have put the book away. Personally wouldnt expect a 6 year old to be able to keep sticky fingers off something like that. You said yourself she doesnt do it deliberately and is just curious, are you really going to punish curiosity? Think this punishment would be out of proportion to the deed tbh. I would be irritated if this was me but deep down I would know I should have put the book away and not punish a child for this, although I would have a talk about it.

[FYIAD]

I would have expected my 6 year olds not to do this. Very naughty IMO. I agree with the idea that she needs a punishment based around her own toys.

[PrimulaVeris]

Ummm... I'm quite draconian but not sure party banning is the way in this insstance

It's to do with respect for property and rules, so punishment should be tied to that - does she get pocket money you can dock? Or earn via chores to replace what is damaged?

LOL at accepting not everyone can have Johnny Depp as hubby

[cosima]

wouldn't breaking the book and seeing how upset you are and realising that you now have to get another present be punishment enough to create an understanding between cause and effect? I think you are all horrible and i'm glad you are not my mother

[LittleBella]

But ALMummy - I did put the book away.
Up high in the cupboard. Do I really have to lock it away? Really?

Cosima, I would think that me buying another present and therefore her getting to keep the old one (it can be fixed, but not to a standard where you can give it as a gift, so she can still play with it) is a reward. If there are no other consequences, then effectively what I'm teaching DD is that it doesn't matter if she breaks stuff because Mummy will just replace it. I simply can't see how that can possibly be seen as any kind of punishment whatsoever, but doubtless that's because I'm horrible.

[FluffyMummy123]

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[FYIAD]

I would find it odd if I had taken time to show her the book, made sure she understood how preciuos it was and then she deliberately broke it. It just would not occur to my children esp at 6. BUT I wouldnt ban her from party as it is too much of a public telling off - I would deal with it at home and sensitively.

[FYIAD]

my mum would say your dd resented you buying such a nice present for the little boy - hence breaking it...

[FluffyMummy123]

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[FluffyMummy123]

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[FYIAD]

too right

[scotsgirl]

I am at the number of people with such low expectations of their children. The OP's daughter is 6, not 2. Totally agree with Crunchie, and also think the delay between 'crime' and 'punishment' isn't a problem. The anticipation of the party is just as exciting as the party itself, so losing that privilege will really make her think about what she did.
Sounds like the OP's daughter is a bit of a minx and probably needs pretty firm boundaries (please don't take offence LB, I mean this in the nicest possible way) - spelling out possible consequences in advance would probably be a good idea (at least it will stop her using the 'I didn't know etc etc' excuse. I do this quite a lot, even though my DS is fairly obedient (but then I am a bit of a control freak )
Hope you can figure it out LB - you know your child best, but my vote is firmly in the 'it's not too draconian' camp.
(Also, don't think the birthday boy will be too upset if she doesn't go - IME, boys don't dwell on these sort of things, but maybe still send a present, to avoid offending the parents!)

[foxinsocks]

you make this book sound so fabulous, even I want to touch it

[mamablue]

LittleBella. Stand your ground, She knew she was not supposed to touch, you had told her. Children of 6 are old enough to understand that there are consequences for their actions.

I certainly would not let her keep the damaged book herself. What would that teach her! I am a bit puzzled as to why people feel it is a "draconian" punishment.

Maybe I am old fashioned and quite strict but I think not going to the party is a sensible punishment and you are not horrible just a good parent with clear boundries for behaviour!

You have explained she made a bad choice, she has had a punishment, end of the situation. Hopefully she will learn from it and I am sure she will grow into a responsible adult beacause you taught her how!

[NotABanana]

If it was me, I would not let her go to the party but I would think about buying another gift. I wouldn't let my chid have the original book.

[NotABanana]

However, have thought again, if the birthday child would be upset that DD wasn't there I would let her go for him and she would have to pay for another present in another way.

[foxinsocks]

oh let her go to the party...

[foxinsocks]

why did the present break so easily?

oh she's only 6. Yes, she should have known better but HONESTLY, you make this present sound like the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and if she's the curious type, she probably couldn't resist. When she's a well known investigative journalist you'll be saying 'she could NEVER keep her nose out of anyone else's business' .

Take something of hers away. Have a stern talk with her at home (I would have been annoyed too I think). Ban Tv, whatever.

You mentioned somewhere that she also does this to your stuff - if this is an overall behaviour issue, then perhaps you need to think of other ways to address it.